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As someone who lives in the US, its frustrating to me that many people will read your anecdote and simply think that any public funding of healthcare equals com

by anon08142018 8y ago

As someone who lives in the US, its frustrating to me that many people will read your anecdote and simply think that any public funding of healthcare equals communism, "death panels", delayed care, and abysmal levels of service. My anecdote is that here in the US, if you lose your job and find yourself without insurance, you can literally go bankrupt from a relatively minor injury or sickness due to the extreme cost of medical care. There are plenty of long lines, bad doctors, and low quality hospitals here too so its not like you get rid of those things by going private. People decline to call the ambulance because they are afraid of getting charged thousands of dollars for it if their injury is not covered by insurance which sometimes ends in their death. I watched my mom die in the hospital and if it weren't for a recent law passed by Obama, we would have had to dip into what little savings we had just to keep her comfortable for her last few days. There is a lot of space for a middle ground that does not need to be limited by your experience or mine.

TomMarius 8y ago
I agree completely, neither extreme is ideal. As I said, I think that given current system it's desirable to fund basic healthcare from taxes, but I think there should be an option to avoid state services if I decide to do so. The major problem in my story isn't insurance itself even though it's expensive as hell, it's that the hospital isn't a business and I'm unable to use my mandatory insurance to cover private healthcare costs. I personally think the Swiss system is good. I never wanted to imply that private services are always high quality, but there definitely is more motivation and it shows - while there might be a considerable portion of bad hospitals in the US, here are literally just a handful below average ones (compared to the US) in my country and it's impossible to get there legally. Of course low quality hospital beats no hospital, but you should be able to fix that with some kind of mandatory insurance that is state-sponsored if the person is poor, for example, no? Don't forget that I'm reacting to a comment praising public hospitals from control reasons, not about absence of social safety. I don't understand why people in the US can't or don't pay their insurance themselves instead of through their employer, though. Seems like a huge risk - well you described it.
- anon08142018 8y ago
  Because insurance is a private industry and there are few goverment assisted options if you are very poor its very expensive to purchase it by yourself in the US. Private insurance has every incentive to keep raising prices and to keep lobbying the government to stay away from the market. Your employer can group all of their employees into a single risk pool, so each employee gets a discounted rate. When you purchase insurance on your own you are no longer in a group and so the cost is far more. Doctors are also incentivized to prescribe you drugs you don't need and drugs that insurance covers instead of the correct medication. My wife had to wait to get surgery on her leg because she just signed up with a new employer and didn't have insurance yet. If she had gotten the surgery without insurance it would have cost somewhere around $100k US.
  - TomMarius 8y ago
    > Because insurance is a private industry and there are few goverment assisted options if you are very poor its very expensive to purchase it by yourself in the US. Private insurance has every incentive to keep raising prices and to keep lobbying the government to stay away from the market. This is proven to be false by Switzerland, where people purchase their private health insurance themselves.
    - anon08142018 8y ago
      Yes, lots of things are possible. I imagine there are both cultural and regulatory differences between the health insurance market in Switzerland vs the US.
      - TomMarius 8y ago
        Yes, I agree. I suspect it's a regulatory problem, that's why I asked - I'd like to know the specifics.
        anon08142018 8y ago

TomMarius 8y ago

I agree completely, neither extreme is ideal. As I said, I think that given current system it's desirable to fund basic healthcare from taxes, but I think there should be an option to avoid state services if I decide to do so. The major problem in my story isn't insurance itself even though it's expensive as hell, it's that the hospital isn't a business and I'm unable to use my mandatory insurance to cover private healthcare costs. I personally think the Swiss system is good. I never wanted to imply that private services are always high quality, but there definitely is more motivation and it shows - while there might be a considerable portion of bad hospitals in the US, here are literally just a handful below average ones (compared to the US) in my country and it's impossible to get there legally. Of course low quality hospital beats no hospital, but you should be able to fix that with some kind of mandatory insurance that is state-sponsored if the person is poor, for example, no? Don't forget that I'm reacting to a comment praising public hospitals from control reasons, not about absence of social safety. I don't understand why people in the US can't or don't pay their insurance themselves instead of through their employer, though. Seems like a huge risk - well you described it.

anon08142018 8y ago
Because insurance is a private industry and there are few goverment assisted options if you are very poor its very expensive to purchase it by yourself in the US. Private insurance has every incentive to keep raising prices and to keep lobbying the government to stay away from the market. Your employer can group all of their employees into a single risk pool, so each employee gets a discounted rate. When you purchase insurance on your own you are no longer in a group and so the cost is far more. Doctors are also incentivized to prescribe you drugs you don't need and drugs that insurance covers instead of the correct medication. My wife had to wait to get surgery on her leg because she just signed up with a new employer and didn't have insurance yet. If she had gotten the surgery without insurance it would have cost somewhere around $100k US.
- TomMarius 8y ago
  > Because insurance is a private industry and there are few goverment assisted options if you are very poor its very expensive to purchase it by yourself in the US. Private insurance has every incentive to keep raising prices and to keep lobbying the government to stay away from the market. This is proven to be false by Switzerland, where people purchase their private health insurance themselves.
  - anon08142018 8y ago
    Yes, lots of things are possible. I imagine there are both cultural and regulatory differences between the health insurance market in Switzerland vs the US.
    - TomMarius 8y ago
      Yes, I agree. I suspect it's a regulatory problem, that's why I asked - I'd like to know the specifics.
      - anon08142018 8y ago