4 ms·

As long as Americans insist on living a ridiculous distance from where they work, no solution will ever work.

yourapostasy 8y ago
This is a function of US business management eschewing remote work by and large, and even further, insisting on locating most work opportunities in more prestigious, more expensive areas of metro geographies (which are already more expensive per unit area than suburban, exurban, or rural areas), than choices by employees to live "a ridiculous distance" from those opportunities. Take away the massive subsidies to the FIRE sectors, drop real estate closer to 10% of after-tax income to compensate for the US' inefficient health care system (then as we wring out those inefficiencies, rebalance the allocations back towards 20-25% of after-tax income to housing), and employees will flock towards city centers. I've read all the calls for Americans to give up their ginormous houses and lots, etc. That is tone deaf to the dynamics of the business of residential development markets in the US, again excessively skewed by FIRE sector subsidies, with runaway municipal development fees and processes and bank financing herd trends adding unhelpful vectors. Before John and Jane Doe even pull up to the highway exit leading to the housing development, their limited choices were already baked in for them by other, far more monied and powerful actors. Incentives matter.
fokov 8y ago
I'd move closer to the jobs if they weren't so far away from affordable housing :( I loved it when I lived .7 miles away from work.
- astrodust 8y ago
  The value equation would tip a lot more if Americans paid a fair price for automobiles. Everything, from oil, to roads, to the cars themselves, are stupidly subsidized.
  - StevePerkins 8y ago
    (1) Drastic increases in gas and car taxes would be highly regressive, and disproportionately affect the poor. (2) Housing prices are rising in large part due to foreign investment / money sheltering. I doubt that you could plausibly increase gas and car taxes high enough offset this, and it would be outright dystopian if you did.
    - jessaustin 8y ago
      It really seems like we should be able to directly tax the foreign investment in order to improve public transit... I don't have any good ideas on this however.
  - jahewson 8y ago
    Of course that would just make both houses and cars unaffordable.
    - baq 8y ago
      I think that was the point...
analog31 8y ago
I live close to work. It's 4 miles by bike. But living close to work is great until... 1. You have a 2 income household 2. Throw kids and their schools into the mix 3. One or both members of the household change jobs All of those things happen to most families. Now it becomes a complete toss-up, and you have to be extremely lucky if both or even one of you can work close to home, school, etc. My spouse and I are in that category, so I know it's possible, but I also know we're lucky. Things might change if there was enough of a safety net, that it wasn't vital to cling to full time employment at all costs.
snarfybarfy 8y ago
Well there is a solution in some far away (mystical?) countries, which is called public (omg communist !!1!) transportation. I also live a longish way from work (30 km) but I've got like 12 trains an hour doing this in 20 - 25 mins. [Thats like 2.12e2 furlongs in 1.45e-2 fortnites for you non metrics.]

This is a function of US business management eschewing remote work by and large, and even further, insisting on locating most work opportunities in more prestigious, more expensive areas of metro geographies (which are already more expensive per unit area than suburban, exurban, or rural areas), than choices by employees to live "a ridiculous distance" from those opportunities. Take away the massive subsidies to the FIRE sectors, drop real estate closer to 10% of after-tax income to compensate for the US' inefficient health care system (then as we wring out those inefficiencies, rebalance the allocations back towards 20-25% of after-tax income to housing), and employees will flock towards city centers. I've read all the calls for Americans to give up their ginormous houses and lots, etc. That is tone deaf to the dynamics of the business of residential development markets in the US, again excessively skewed by FIRE sector subsidies, with runaway municipal development fees and processes and bank financing herd trends adding unhelpful vectors. Before John and Jane Doe even pull up to the highway exit leading to the housing development, their limited choices were already baked in for them by other, far more monied and powerful actors. Incentives matter.

fokov 8y ago

I'd move closer to the jobs if they weren't so far away from affordable housing :( I loved it when I lived .7 miles away from work.

astrodust 8y ago
The value equation would tip a lot more if Americans paid a fair price for automobiles. Everything, from oil, to roads, to the cars themselves, are stupidly subsidized.
- StevePerkins 8y ago
  (1) Drastic increases in gas and car taxes would be highly regressive, and disproportionately affect the poor. (2) Housing prices are rising in large part due to foreign investment / money sheltering. I doubt that you could plausibly increase gas and car taxes high enough offset this, and it would be outright dystopian if you did.
  - jessaustin 8y ago
    It really seems like we should be able to directly tax the foreign investment in order to improve public transit... I don't have any good ideas on this however.
- jahewson 8y ago
  Of course that would just make both houses and cars unaffordable.
  - baq 8y ago
    I think that was the point...

analog31 8y ago

I live close to work. It's 4 miles by bike. But living close to work is great until... 1. You have a 2 income household 2. Throw kids and their schools into the mix 3. One or both members of the household change jobs All of those things happen to most families. Now it becomes a complete toss-up, and you have to be extremely lucky if both or even one of you can work close to home, school, etc. My spouse and I are in that category, so I know it's possible, but I also know we're lucky. Things might change if there was enough of a safety net, that it wasn't vital to cling to full time employment at all costs.

snarfybarfy 8y ago

Well there is a solution in some far away (mystical?) countries, which is called public (omg communist !!1!) transportation. I also live a longish way from work (30 km) but I've got like 12 trains an hour doing this in 20 - 25 mins. [Thats like 2.12e2 furlongs in 1.45e-2 fortnites for you non metrics.]