4 ms·

It probably also has a lot to do with the corruption scandal with Bridges, Force, and possibly even more dirty cops - which is why the other set of murder-for-h

by gwern 8y ago

It probably also has a lot to do with the corruption scandal with Bridges, Force, and possibly even more dirty cops - which is why the other set of murder-for-hire charges in NY were dropped in 2014 before the trial... It would be a prosecutor's nightmare to try a case where you have several of the principal investigators stealing funds, money-laundering, tampering with witnesses, selling internal info to the suspect, and who knows what else (we still don't know who scammed Ulbricht for the other hits, and Variety Jones has claimed that at least one more dirty cop is still on the loose). And let's not forget that FBI agent Tarbell, who 'found' the SR1 server in Iceland, beat a very hasty retreat to the private sector after what should've been a career-defining triumph, and no one wants to discuss exactly what bug supposedly spat out the IP address... I once asked a pair of FBI agents what was up with Tarbell leaving so fast, and they looked uncomfortable and didn't reply. (This is part of why Ulbricht's defense team's decision to not claim the Iceland server is widely regarded as a trial-losing mistake.) Not only would there be little point, but any trial would likely be hugely embarrassing and discovery reveal things that the FBI and IRS and DEA would very much prefer be forgotten.

defen 8y ago
> no one wants to discuss exactly what bug supposedly spat out the IP address I haven't really followed this case too closely, so what exactly are you hinting at here? That the government possibly used NSA / national-security-level exploits to figure out who DPR was? That there was some level of parallel construction / evidence laundering?
- gwern 8y ago
  The DEA does use parallel-construction, and the FBI does recruit computer security researchers for attacks (the CMU CERT attack on SR2) and hand-me-down NSA exploits (and against Tor specifically), so neither of those is remotely far-fetched. And SR1 was a priority target. We may never know what really happened; the whole Bridges/Force corruption thing, for example, is so wild no one could have dreamed it up. However, from the descriptions like Nick Bilton's article/book puffpiece, I think it's somewhat likely (and more probable than NSA tech) that Tarbell did some unauthorized (and likely illegal) personal hacking and that's the kernel of truth behind his BS 'I was just typing in some random stuff and the server spat out an IP address at me!' story - SR1 was not very securely coded. Had this come out, it would've led to some serious evidence-tainting problems for the prosecutors because it affects everything downstream: the Iceland server, the SF IP address, the Pennsylvania backups, and finally Ross's unencrypted laptop in SF.
  - ct520 8y ago
    Parrallel re construction should be out lawed. How the heck do you defend against a lie after the fact. You could never challenge using the fruits of a poisonous tree method. Dirty dirty federal government move.
    - chimeracoder 8y ago
      > Parrallel re construction should be out lawed. Parallel construction is, by definition, illegal (it's covering up illegal behavior in order to introduce evidence in court illegally). The trouble is that it's difficult to identify and prove.
      - ct520 8y ago
        Yet this is exactly what they preach... smh https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2014/feb/03/dea-parallel-construction-guides/ https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2014/feb/03/dea-paral...
- gregsadetsky 8y ago
  See this post/discussion about the parallel construction hypothesis: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8404511 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8404511
0x8BADF00D 8y ago
What a strange case. It would seem that you can be prosecuted for your political beliefs, and this case sets the precedent for it.
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  No it doesn't. Running a drug trafficking site is not a "political belief". Had he been campaigning for the legalization of drugs, and was arrested doing that, you'd have a point.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
atombender 8y ago
Where can one go to read more about this case? It sounds like there are a lot of fascinating subplots here.
- aw1621107 8y ago
  "Sunk: How Ross Ulbricht ended up in prison for life" [0] on Ars Technica is one option. [0]: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/05/sunk-how-ross-ulbricht-ended-up-in-prison-for-life/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/05/sunk-how-ross-ul... (edited because apparently hyperlinks don't work the way I thought they would)

by gwern 8y ago

defen 8y ago

> no one wants to discuss exactly what bug supposedly spat out the IP address I haven't really followed this case too closely, so what exactly are you hinting at here? That the government possibly used NSA / national-security-level exploits to figure out who DPR was? That there was some level of parallel construction / evidence laundering?

gwern 8y ago
The DEA does use parallel-construction, and the FBI does recruit computer security researchers for attacks (the CMU CERT attack on SR2) and hand-me-down NSA exploits (and against Tor specifically), so neither of those is remotely far-fetched. And SR1 was a priority target. We may never know what really happened; the whole Bridges/Force corruption thing, for example, is so wild no one could have dreamed it up. However, from the descriptions like Nick Bilton's article/book puffpiece, I think it's somewhat likely (and more probable than NSA tech) that Tarbell did some unauthorized (and likely illegal) personal hacking and that's the kernel of truth behind his BS 'I was just typing in some random stuff and the server spat out an IP address at me!' story - SR1 was not very securely coded. Had this come out, it would've led to some serious evidence-tainting problems for the prosecutors because it affects everything downstream: the Iceland server, the SF IP address, the Pennsylvania backups, and finally Ross's unencrypted laptop in SF.
- ct520 8y ago
  Parrallel re construction should be out lawed. How the heck do you defend against a lie after the fact. You could never challenge using the fruits of a poisonous tree method. Dirty dirty federal government move.
  - chimeracoder 8y ago
    > Parrallel re construction should be out lawed. Parallel construction is, by definition, illegal (it's covering up illegal behavior in order to introduce evidence in court illegally). The trouble is that it's difficult to identify and prove.
    - ct520 8y ago
      Yet this is exactly what they preach... smh https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2014/feb/03/dea-parallel-construction-guides/ https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2014/feb/03/dea-paral...
gregsadetsky 8y ago
See this post/discussion about the parallel construction hypothesis: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8404511 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8404511

0x8BADF00D 8y ago

What a strange case. It would seem that you can be prosecuted for your political beliefs, and this case sets the precedent for it.

s73v3r_ 8y ago
No it doesn't. Running a drug trafficking site is not a "political belief". Had he been campaigning for the legalization of drugs, and was arrested doing that, you'd have a point.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

atombender 8y ago

Where can one go to read more about this case? It sounds like there are a lot of fascinating subplots here.

aw1621107 8y ago
"Sunk: How Ross Ulbricht ended up in prison for life" [0] on Ars Technica is one option. [0]: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/05/sunk-how-ross-ulbricht-ended-up-in-prison-for-life/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/05/sunk-how-ross-ul... (edited because apparently hyperlinks don't work the way I thought they would)