5 ms·

I think her personal friendship with the Ronell is blinding her to the realities of the case. I think it's unfair to say that she "doesn't understand" these kin

by OskarS 8y ago

I think her personal friendship with the Ronell is blinding her to the realities of the case. I think it's unfair to say that she "doesn't understand" these kinds of power dynamics. She's just human like everyone and she's made a terrible mistake signing this letter. I should be clear: I'm a huge admirer of Professor Butler, and her writing has been very meaningful to me personally (though i recognize that many HNers might disagree). I still admire her greatly, but it just makes the disappointment so much greater. She should know better than this.

baud147258 8y ago
Thinking some more on that case, in a similar situation (if I had a friend accused of a crime that I am trying to fight against), I don't know what I'd do. I most likely would still support my friend, so I might have been too harsh in my previous comment.
- karmajunkie 8y ago
  Just because it needs to be said, supporting a friend or family member and holding them accountable for things they did are not mutually exclusive ideas. It is perhaps emotionally tricky when the problem is viewed as a he said/she said argument, but in this case there seems to be evidence bearing out the allegations at least in part.
  - DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
    Very well put. I wonder if the reason people try to support an accused friend by denying the allegations, is because alternative forms of support haven't occurred to them. For example, if the accused continues to protest the accusation, a good friend might offer to help the accused bring the truth to light. Or if the accused is clearly guilty, a good friend might offer to help the accused find appropriate ways to make restitution, and/or offer emotional/logistical support if the accused will be punished.
  - bertjk 8y ago
    It could be mutually exclusive, if you think the expected punishment for being found guilty is unfair and disproportionate to the "crime".
  - baud147258 8y ago
    Thank you for adding some nuance to my statement wit a good point. I'll have to keep that in mind (supporting a friend or family member and holding them accountable for things they did are not mutually exclusive ideas)
tathougies 8y ago
We have been told not to forgive others for common human mistakes. Why should Professor Butler be given an exemption, especially when a lot of her scholarship has been aimed at addressing the unfortunate responses to the very same situation?
- yostrovs 8y ago
  To add, the accused professor is, along with the signers of the ridiculous letter, are obviously completely corrupted. Similar to politicians who campaign on fighting corruption and then go and do it themselves, this woman should be treated as an academic criminal and forced to retire and be forgotten about in the field. Kind of like former governor Blagojevich of Illinois, though they don't have prisons for corrupt career academics.

by OskarS 8y ago

baud147258 8y ago

Thinking some more on that case, in a similar situation (if I had a friend accused of a crime that I am trying to fight against), I don't know what I'd do. I most likely would still support my friend, so I might have been too harsh in my previous comment.

karmajunkie 8y ago
Just because it needs to be said, supporting a friend or family member and holding them accountable for things they did are not mutually exclusive ideas. It is perhaps emotionally tricky when the problem is viewed as a he said/she said argument, but in this case there seems to be evidence bearing out the allegations at least in part.
- DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
  Very well put. I wonder if the reason people try to support an accused friend by denying the allegations, is because alternative forms of support haven't occurred to them. For example, if the accused continues to protest the accusation, a good friend might offer to help the accused bring the truth to light. Or if the accused is clearly guilty, a good friend might offer to help the accused find appropriate ways to make restitution, and/or offer emotional/logistical support if the accused will be punished.
- bertjk 8y ago
  It could be mutually exclusive, if you think the expected punishment for being found guilty is unfair and disproportionate to the "crime".
- baud147258 8y ago
  Thank you for adding some nuance to my statement wit a good point. I'll have to keep that in mind (supporting a friend or family member and holding them accountable for things they did are not mutually exclusive ideas)

tathougies 8y ago

We have been told not to forgive others for common human mistakes. Why should Professor Butler be given an exemption, especially when a lot of her scholarship has been aimed at addressing the unfortunate responses to the very same situation?

yostrovs 8y ago
To add, the accused professor is, along with the signers of the ridiculous letter, are obviously completely corrupted. Similar to politicians who campaign on fighting corruption and then go and do it themselves, this woman should be treated as an academic criminal and forced to retire and be forgotten about in the field. Kind of like former governor Blagojevich of Illinois, though they don't have prisons for corrupt career academics.