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This is from the letter signed by her colleagues: We write as long-term colleagues of Professor Avital Ronell who has been under investigation by the Title IX
by OskarS 8y ago
This is from the letter signed by her colleagues:
We write as long-term colleagues of Professor Avital Ronell who has been under investigation by the Title IX offices at New York University. Although we have no access to the
confidential dossier, we have all worked for many years in close proximity to Professor Ronell and accumulated collectively years of experience to support our view of her capacity as teacher and a scholar, but also as someone who has served as Chair of both the Departments of German and Comparative Literature at New York University. We have all seen her relationship with students, and some of us know the individual who has waged this malicious campaign against her. We wish to communicate first in the clearest terms our profound an enduring admiration for Professor Ronell whose mentorship of students has been no less than remarkable over many years. We deplore the damage that this legal proceeding causes her, and seek to register in clear terms our objection to any judgment against her. We hold that the allegations against her do not constitute actual evidence, but rather support the view that malicious intention has animated and sustained this legal nightmare.
It is crushing to see a statement like this signed by a person like Judith Butler. It is exactly the kind of response that have kept sexual harassment quiet for so long. "We know [accused harrasser], he would never act this way. We've worked with him for years, he's an honorable man, we know his character,... The accuser is just seeking attention/money in this malicious campaign". It just happens to be the case that the accuser is a woman in power this time.
Having a powerful feminist be accused of sexual harassment does zero damage to the feminist movement at large. If nothing else, #MeToo has taught us that there are harassers hiding everywhere, and even the people you least suspect can be guilty of it. This is just another example.
- baud147258 8y ago> Having a powerful feminist be accused of sexual harassment does zero damage to the feminist movement at large. But then a person like Judith Butler should not sign such a letter, showing that she has not understood the power dynamics that have been keeping sexual harassment quiet.
- OskarS 8y agoI think her personal friendship with the Ronell is blinding her to the realities of the case. I think it's unfair to say that she "doesn't understand" these kinds of power dynamics. She's just human like everyone and she's made a terrible mistake signing this letter. I should be clear: I'm a huge admirer of Professor Butler, and her writing has been very meaningful to me personally (though i recognize that many HNers might disagree). I still admire her greatly, but it just makes the disappointment so much greater. She should know better than this.
- baud147258 8y agoThinking some more on that case, in a similar situation (if I had a friend accused of a crime that I am trying to fight against), I don't know what I'd do. I most likely would still support my friend, so I might have been too harsh in my previous comment.
- karmajunkie 8y agoJust because it needs to be said, supporting a friend or family member and holding them accountable for things they did are not mutually exclusive ideas. It is perhaps emotionally tricky when the problem is viewed as a he said/she said argument, but in this case there seems to be evidence bearing out the allegations at least in part.
- DoofusOfDeath 8y agoVery well put. I wonder if the reason people try to support an accused friend by denying the allegations, is because alternative forms of support haven't occurred to them. For example, if the accused continues to protest the accusation, a good friend might offer to help the accused bring the truth to light. Or if the accused is clearly guilty, a good friend might offer to help the accused find appropriate ways to make restitution, and/or offer emotional/logistical support if the accused will be punished.
- bertjk 8y agoIt could be mutually exclusive, if you think the expected punishment for being found guilty is unfair and disproportionate to the "crime".
- jules 8y agoDid you really think that she was ever about principle rather than pragmatic tribalism?
- ZeroBugBounce 8y agoI'm not sure about this particular person in question, but it seems to me one never knows who will stick by the principle instead of "their side" until real-world challenges come along to "test" those principles. I'd wager even the persons being "tested" don't really know what they'd do under such circumstances. My feeling is that it's rare to stick to the principles at hand compared to protecting your own (and I mean for any group/tribe not any specific one).
- lazysheepherd 8y agoThank you jules, this is really the bottom line of the whole article IMO. We should support feminist agenda and movements like #MeToo. But to keep ourselves sober to whole movement, at the same time we should never forget there's a strong tribal element to actions of these people. And hopefully keep the effects of these in just in the right levels.
- patrickg_zill 8y agoI'd note that all the feminists were fine with Title IX star chambers with oppressive rules that hampered a good defense... As long as it could be a cudgel to be used against "misogyny" and "patriarchy". They are only unhappy now that someone they value is under the same rules.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- metalliqaz 8y agoSo much this.
- moate 8y agoHello, I'm a feminist. Not unhappy that people who are committing sexual crimes are being brought to justice. Your wide brush is counterproductive to the "logical and open" discussion here. The whole point of the article that you read in its entirety and internalized before commenting upon it was that this is difficult for some people to accept: a champion of women's rights was perpetrating the crimes she seemed to be fighting against. Reconciling these truths is difficult for some people, and some people who worked closely with this woman will come to defense of her character as they knew her. Hypocrites abound. In fact everyone holds some conflicting views/acts in ways that work against their self interest. It's human nature. But not everyone who you disagree with is a hypocrite. Hell,some of them aren't even objectively wrong! But if you only exist in an in-group vs. out-group mindset you're going to miss some great points. TL;dr- Title IX is great, and it seems like this woman is both a renowned academic AND a sexual abuser.
- newswriter99 8y agoI'm curious as to how often you go out of your way to criticize the lack of logical and open discussion in feminist circles. I'm in the journalism industry, and have seen time and time again one-sided mob psychology suffocate anyone even considering to constructively criticize the movement. If you can't admit just how extremist and tribal the current atmosphere is, I don't think you're going to be able to appreciate the perspective of the person you're replying to.
- gwbas1c 8y agoI must admit that, if a close colleague of mine was accused of something that I did not believe to be true, I could be compelled to sign something like that. The lesson we need to learn is how powerful and misleading our biases and emotions are.
- eeeuo 8y agoThe letter is a massive mistake. The most ardent feminists that I know aren't willing to defend it. It's absolutely and clearly hypocritical, and maps directly into every shitty, awful defense of a male sexual harasser, just with the pronouns switched. It's a shocking lapse of judgement that the co-signees were not able to understand that. I find it frustrating that this letter gives cover to the kneejerk victim blaming defenses over the last year of male sexual harassers. It's a straightforward argument for those writers to point out that a group of world renown feminists, who have studied power dynamics in-depth, fell into the exact same trap. This is exactly the wrong conclusion to reach, and stalls the momentum of a movement that was doing genuine good. I disagree with the trend of dismissing due process in the #MeToo movement, but it is absolutely undeniable that it has brought justice to victims of horrible abuse, in a way that simply would not have been possible 2 or 3 years ago, and should be applauded for that. Just an incredibly infuriating story overall.
- yostrovs 8y ago"It's absolutely and clearly hypocritical, and maps directly into every shitty, awful defense of a male sexual harasser.." I haven't seen any such similar defense of a male harasser. Some individuals dared to say something about someone here or there, but a letter by a group of leaders in the field that the accused works in... No, nothing of the sort.