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I am not part of the DEFCON community, but every year I hear about warrantless searches, equipment seized art the border and hacker arrests. I wonder why anyone
by jimnotgym 8y ago
I am not part of the DEFCON community, but every year I hear about warrantless searches, equipment seized art the border and hacker arrests. I wonder why anyone, not least security researchers, would take the risk of going there. Just so as you guys know, we have conference facilities in Europe...
- saurik 8y agoIf it makes you feel any better, a year or two ago DEFCON started a second location not in the United States! They chose... China.
- kkop 8y agoMuch of the "we stand up to authority" hubbub of US security researchers and developers is mostly an act. The sentiment is there to comfort the participants and validate their existence, just like in many other industries. While I hope I am wrong I wouldn't expect people not to fold when it matters. Somewhat understandably so since the current alternative is arguably, or at least ultimately, exile. Just look at this situation. Unless hotel security have been breaking the law, which is unlikely, staying at these hotels means they can legally search your room and possibly your things. The only thing standing in the way of this is the reaction from the organizers and attendees. So if you care about your rights you don't really have much of a choice than to react and moving, at least out of Las Vegas, shouldn't be a hard decision. And this would be illegal in at least part of Europe since a hotel room is categorized as a temporary residence.
- bjt2n3904 8y ago> Much of the "we stand up to authority" hubbub of US security researchers and developers is mostly an act. Source, go through the body scanners at the TSA. Worn down, can't be bothered to "echo FUUUUUUUU > /dev/null" any more.
- Bartweiss 8y agoSurely this mostly depends on what you care about? Refusing to unlock a device at the border has much heavier (potential) consequences than requesting an alternate search, but I think there are a lot of people who willingly go through body scanners and wouldn't unlock a device.
- halbritt 8y agoThe fourth amendment absolutely applies to hotel rooms. https://www.gsblaw.com/duff-on-hospitality-law/guest-room-privacy-and-the-fourth-amendment https://www.gsblaw.com/duff-on-hospitality-law/guest-room-pr... https://scholarship.shu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1048&context=circuit_review https://scholarship.shu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1048... From my very basic understanding of what transpired, the hotel security were trespassing by entering a rented room. I'm not altogether familiar with state law in Nevada, but that could certainly be argued in California.
- modzu 8y agopeople go because its a community. they face the risks because this community and the work they do is important.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- mieseratte 8y agoI'm not a European, but every year I hear about folks being shot, run down, and arrested for a crass joke. Why would anyone take the risk of Europe?
- pas 8y ago> but every year I hear about folks being shot, run down, and arrested for a crass joke. Care to clarify what do you mean by this?
- Kalium 8y agoYou're absolutely right! Europe has conference facilities! Of course, most places in Europe also have much stricter laws on guns. Many places aren't quite into the whole "free speech" thing in the way Americans are. These things are pretty important to a large number of attendees. DEFCON is probably best regarded as a regional North American hacker con that reflects the culture and history of North American hackers. You cannot transplant DEFCON and preserve its cultural history. This is an issue of some concern, as it's the people and culture that matter the most at DEFCON rather than the conference that someone who has never attended might reasonably assume. After all, it's just a conference, right? Continental Europe already has CCC. DEFCON's roots and history tie is pretty firmly to Vegas.
- jimnotgym 8y agoI'm not quite following, apart from firing guns, what is it you can do in Vegas that took can't do in Europe? Or are you saying the guns are what makes DEFCON?
- Kalium 8y agoPeople routinely and unremarkably carry weapons upon their person at DEFCON. It's a reasonably common event, to the point where early pictures of DEFCON events sometimes contained more guns than laptops. The yearly shoot is a social fixture. Guns are an easy example. Lockpicks are another - the UK does not smile on them. I'm saying you cannot readily relocate DEFCON to a randomly selected European conference venue without fundamentally transforming it into something that is no longer the DEFCON we know and love. To put it another way, your suggestion and incomprehension underscores that you understand DEFCON as a conference. An event where people talking at halls of other people is the main thing that matters. I'm trying to communicate that it is a convention and cultural touchstone enabled by the unique confluence of laws in Nevada and the willingness of casinos to cooperate with wealthy groups. It's very easy to suggest that an event be moved somewhere else. Why not move Jeremy Corbyn's next rally to, I dunno, Canada? There are halls for rent there too! It's perhaps more subtle to understand that there are other things than bare physical requirements that tie an event and a place together.
- forgottenpass 8y agoI wonder why anyone, not least security researchers, would take the risk of going there. Because this is what fear has done to the world. As much as I hate the status quo, caving in and not going when I've done nothing wrong only serves to perpetuate it.