4 ms·

Actually, all of those states had higher standards of living than core USSR and also access to this huge Soviet market. Didn't do much good since communism is

Actually, all of those states had higher standards of living than core USSR and also access to this huge Soviet market. Didn't do much good since communism is so bad, but still. After the collapse of the Bloc most of those countries lost their industrial capacity, some have not yet recovered, some only recovered on outsource.

consumer451 8y ago
That may be true, but it does not invalidate the idea that resources were drained from the satellite nations. How the USSR chose to spend those resources seems to have been to invest in the military and expansion of the empire while ordinary Russian citizens were left to "eat grass."
- doombolt 8y ago
  No, it does. Manufactured goods are not "resources". Those are made for selling, and in modern world markets for goods are considered more of a gift than goods themselves. Are they not? Does USA drain resources from China?
  - consumer451 8y ago
    With all due respect, the comparison between the relations of USA/China and Russia/Poland for example does pass the sniff test. The USA did not appoint the Chinese government, the USA does not have its military across China. USSR/satellite state relationships were nothing like a normal economic relationship. They were more like colonial era relations such as England/India prior to Indian independence.
    - doombolt 8y ago
      Unfortunally we have diverged from economic arguments to purely political ones. And politically, you've got what you've got, especially as a small country. Things could go massively worse. The USSR had complete freedom of action and it was pretty benign for several reasons. Maybe you have feeling that it sucked big time, but the reference point should be 1984 in real life.
      - consumer451 8y ago
        From my last comment: > USSR/satellite state relationships were nothing like a normal economic relationship. How am I bringing up politics? From your last reply: >The USSR had complete freedom of action and it was pretty benign for several reasons. Maybe you have feeling that it sucked big time, but the reference point should be 1984 in real life. I don't understand what you are saying here in any way. But, relating the USSR to "benign" is so far from the historic truth that I have no idea how to respond. This conversation is likely no longer appropriate for HN, so have a nice day comrade?
        doombolt 8y ago
        "were nothing like a normal economic relationship" is not a very substantive claim.
oblio 8y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SovRom https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SovRom
- doombolt 8y ago
  "The last two remaining SovRoms, Sovrompetrol and Sovromcuarţ, were disbanded in 1956" If we're talking about 1950s especially, I can see how this link is relevant. Unfortunately I can't validate any clauses that are there. However, in a general context of Soviet-Romanian relationship, USSR imported a huge amount of Romanian furniture, footwear, clothes and other consumer goods. I assume these were paid for nicely. As far as I know Romania had uniquely severe economic problems during communist period even when compared with neighbouring countries, but I don't think you should blame USSR solely for that.

consumer451 8y ago

That may be true, but it does not invalidate the idea that resources were drained from the satellite nations. How the USSR chose to spend those resources seems to have been to invest in the military and expansion of the empire while ordinary Russian citizens were left to "eat grass."

doombolt 8y ago
No, it does. Manufactured goods are not "resources". Those are made for selling, and in modern world markets for goods are considered more of a gift than goods themselves. Are they not? Does USA drain resources from China?
- consumer451 8y ago
  With all due respect, the comparison between the relations of USA/China and Russia/Poland for example does pass the sniff test. The USA did not appoint the Chinese government, the USA does not have its military across China. USSR/satellite state relationships were nothing like a normal economic relationship. They were more like colonial era relations such as England/India prior to Indian independence.
  - doombolt 8y ago
    Unfortunally we have diverged from economic arguments to purely political ones. And politically, you've got what you've got, especially as a small country. Things could go massively worse. The USSR had complete freedom of action and it was pretty benign for several reasons. Maybe you have feeling that it sucked big time, but the reference point should be 1984 in real life.
    - consumer451 8y ago
      From my last comment: > USSR/satellite state relationships were nothing like a normal economic relationship. How am I bringing up politics? From your last reply: >The USSR had complete freedom of action and it was pretty benign for several reasons. Maybe you have feeling that it sucked big time, but the reference point should be 1984 in real life. I don't understand what you are saying here in any way. But, relating the USSR to "benign" is so far from the historic truth that I have no idea how to respond. This conversation is likely no longer appropriate for HN, so have a nice day comrade?
      - doombolt 8y ago
        "were nothing like a normal economic relationship" is not a very substantive claim.

oblio 8y ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SovRom https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SovRom

doombolt 8y ago
"The last two remaining SovRoms, Sovrompetrol and Sovromcuarţ, were disbanded in 1956" If we're talking about 1950s especially, I can see how this link is relevant. Unfortunately I can't validate any clauses that are there. However, in a general context of Soviet-Romanian relationship, USSR imported a huge amount of Romanian furniture, footwear, clothes and other consumer goods. I assume these were paid for nicely. As far as I know Romania had uniquely severe economic problems during communist period even when compared with neighbouring countries, but I don't think you should blame USSR solely for that.