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This is something the public can control. Make government positions competitive with corporate ones and you'll get a bunch more talented (and patriotic) "educat

by mLuby 8y ago

This is something the public can control. Make government positions competitive with corporate ones and you'll get a bunch more talented (and patriotic) "educated technologists" working in government. Likewise with teachers. It's not difficult, just costly.

garmaine 8y ago
Not just competitive, but better paying. Take Taiwan and other East Asian countries—government service is desirable, high paying, and a really prestigious job. And lo and behold, their government services really do work very well.
- dmix 8y ago
  This is why I'm fiscally conservative while also believing public servants should make market rates. Which also means pushing back against obsessing about total employment counts at x rate but rather focusing on the specific utility of individual agencies, policies, and projects. Sadly public salaries and jobs in general are low hanging fruit targeted by short-sighted political campaigns while all other gov spending tends to be a black hole with zero measurable ROI and countless professional public grant/gov money consumers well aware of the lack of measurable ROI and crony/who-you-know-in-gov nature of spending. Or worse the phony claims of adopting 'private industry' to side step accountability via public-private arrangements which feature none of the benefits of markets (true competition, state anointed monopolies, market dominance disconnected from value provided to consumers, etc). Most of which could be blanketly solved by hiring good people (the people who dispense and use the money) and not creating quid-pro-quo incentive systems by underpaying public servants.
  - ekianjo 8y ago
    why should they make market rates? they have job security forever? Risk in the private sector should be rewarded somehow.
    - dantheman 8y ago
      also the people attracted to job security forever are rarely the best. and the best want to work with the best.
    - pc86 8y ago
      If you could do all of the following as part of a single bill it would go a long way toward getting brilliant people into government roles. 1. Pay for all the below by strategically cutting military spending some low-to-mid single-digit percentage.[0] 2. Eliminate public sector unions and most Civil Service classifications, both of which make it harder to fire low performers. 3. Peg government payroll for all positions to (if it exists) their private-sector counterpart, plus a healthy percentage, say 15%.[1] 4. Eliminate government pensions and match government employee 401(k) contributions up to a large percentage, e.g. 10% of salary. 5. Allow all government employees to enroll in Medicare. [0] The military is already getting projects it doesn't want as pork, most of these cuts could be to those programs. [1] There are legal caps to salary for the executive branch but there are already ways around those (e.g. as contractors).
      - dylan604 8y ago
        Sadly, any senator/congressperson putting a bill like this would not hold their position after the very next election cycle. The lobbyists are too strong. However, I would vote for someone that ran on this platform.
    - garmaine 8y ago
      Why should they have job security more than anyone else?
      - ekianjo 8y ago
        its one of the perks of civil servants and clearly advertised as such.
- TheCapeGreek 8y ago
  This doesn't always work out. Case in point with Greece. Decades of cushy government jobs and tons of people flocking to those positions to be lazy and do nothing, with policies that amount to tenure so they'll never be fired. I do agree that government jobs should be more competitive in the job market, just with caution.
  - garmaine 8y ago
    > with policies that amount to tenure You've identified the problem.
ada1981 8y ago
I imagine there are a whole bunch of “gov is inefficient” types who like having non-competitive rates so reinforce the narrative. This makes it easier for the public to support dismantling gov programs, etc.

by mLuby 8y ago

garmaine 8y ago

Not just competitive, but better paying. Take Taiwan and other East Asian countries—government service is desirable, high paying, and a really prestigious job. And lo and behold, their government services really do work very well.

dmix 8y ago
This is why I'm fiscally conservative while also believing public servants should make market rates. Which also means pushing back against obsessing about total employment counts at x rate but rather focusing on the specific utility of individual agencies, policies, and projects. Sadly public salaries and jobs in general are low hanging fruit targeted by short-sighted political campaigns while all other gov spending tends to be a black hole with zero measurable ROI and countless professional public grant/gov money consumers well aware of the lack of measurable ROI and crony/who-you-know-in-gov nature of spending. Or worse the phony claims of adopting 'private industry' to side step accountability via public-private arrangements which feature none of the benefits of markets (true competition, state anointed monopolies, market dominance disconnected from value provided to consumers, etc). Most of which could be blanketly solved by hiring good people (the people who dispense and use the money) and not creating quid-pro-quo incentive systems by underpaying public servants.
- ekianjo 8y ago
  why should they make market rates? they have job security forever? Risk in the private sector should be rewarded somehow.
  - dantheman 8y ago
    also the people attracted to job security forever are rarely the best. and the best want to work with the best.
  - pc86 8y ago
    If you could do all of the following as part of a single bill it would go a long way toward getting brilliant people into government roles. 1. Pay for all the below by strategically cutting military spending some low-to-mid single-digit percentage.[0] 2. Eliminate public sector unions and most Civil Service classifications, both of which make it harder to fire low performers. 3. Peg government payroll for all positions to (if it exists) their private-sector counterpart, plus a healthy percentage, say 15%.[1] 4. Eliminate government pensions and match government employee 401(k) contributions up to a large percentage, e.g. 10% of salary. 5. Allow all government employees to enroll in Medicare. [0] The military is already getting projects it doesn't want as pork, most of these cuts could be to those programs. [1] There are legal caps to salary for the executive branch but there are already ways around those (e.g. as contractors).
    - dylan604 8y ago
      Sadly, any senator/congressperson putting a bill like this would not hold their position after the very next election cycle. The lobbyists are too strong. However, I would vote for someone that ran on this platform.
  - garmaine 8y ago
    Why should they have job security more than anyone else?
    - ekianjo 8y ago
      its one of the perks of civil servants and clearly advertised as such.
TheCapeGreek 8y ago
This doesn't always work out. Case in point with Greece. Decades of cushy government jobs and tons of people flocking to those positions to be lazy and do nothing, with policies that amount to tenure so they'll never be fired. I do agree that government jobs should be more competitive in the job market, just with caution.
- garmaine 8y ago
  > with policies that amount to tenure You've identified the problem.

ada1981 8y ago

I imagine there are a whole bunch of “gov is inefficient” types who like having non-competitive rates so reinforce the narrative. This makes it easier for the public to support dismantling gov programs, etc.