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The rail network in the UK is also strange. On some routes it is cheaper to split your journey across multiple tickets. On others it is cheaper to buy a ticket

The rail network in the UK is also strange. On some routes it is cheaper to split your journey across multiple tickets. On others it is cheaper to buy a ticket for a longer journey. However, this is illegal and the train companies do attempt prosecutions.

saganus 8y ago
Why is it illegal and how do they enforce it? I know that something similar happens with airplane tickets but they get you with the luggage and with terms & conditions AFAIK. How is it similar/different with train tickets?
- buckminster 8y ago
  It is illegal because the railway byelaws make it illegal. The railway doesn't just have its own law, it also has its own police force, The British Transport Police, though as far as I know they don't do the ticket enforcement. You are not allowed to break a journey either, so a ticket inspector can spot a ticket for a longer journey at one end of the other. The multiple tickets ruse is more of a grey area.
  - DonaldFisk 8y ago
    BREAK OF JOURNEY Rules vary by train company and route. In general you cannot break your outward journey (except for necessary changes of train) but you can break your return journey. Source: https://www.splityourticket.co.uk/info/fare-types.aspx https://www.splityourticket.co.uk/info/fare-types.aspx I've already dealt with the legality of split ticketing in another post.
    - aaaaaaaaaab 8y ago
      And how do they enforce it? Chain you to the train?
      - anticensor 8y ago
        No, they fine at exit.
    - exikyut 8y ago
      Huh. I wonder if it would be cheaper to do a ticket like start -> actual destination (stay on train) -> overshoot destination (get off) (get back on) -> (turn around; begin return trip) -> actual destination (get off) (get back on) -> start ? Seems utterly unintuitive, and it probably is, but I am curious.
      - ColinWright 8y ago
        That can be possible, and I have done it. Part of the reason for all this is that the train system has been broken up into a collection of franchises. Some companies will then incentivise some journeys, and so the fare doesn't always reflect the time or distance of the journey being made. As a result you can find and exploit anomalies, but only if you're willing to spend the (sometimes considerable) time and effort.
    - ColinWright 8y ago
      The National Conditions of Carriage actually permit breaking an outbound journey, provided the ticket remains valid for the continuation. Outbound tickets are usually only valid on the day, so in that case you can't continue the journey the next day. But a regular standard (or first-class) ticket on a train that's not the last train of the day can be broken on the outbound journey. For most tickets. Some tickets, such as Advance and some Super-Off-Peak, have additional conditions. However, I do have a letter from a train company saying that they were wrong to have charged for an extra ticket, and wrong to have tried to start proceedings. So breaking an outbound journey can be legal, and in such cases buying an over-length ticket is possible. It's circumstances like these that led in part to some of the specifics of the recent shake-up of the fare structures.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
DonaldFisk 8y ago
It's legal: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/fare-splitting-works-much-can-save-train-tickets/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/fare-spli... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19217111 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19217111 and there are web sites which do split ticketing: http://www.raileasy.co.uk/home/split-ticketing/ http://www.raileasy.co.uk/home/split-ticketing/ http://www.splitticketing.co.uk http://www.splitticketing.co.uk https://www.splityourticket.co.uk https://www.splityourticket.co.uk
- buckminster 8y ago
  Fair enough for split ticketing, but they prosecuted someone last year for overlong ticketing. It only failed because they got the facts (as opposed to the law) wrong.
- ColinWright 8y ago
  To be clearer, splitting tickets is legal, and while the second ticket may become invalid if the first train runs late, train companies now honour the second ticket if the reason you miss your train is because the incoming train has run late. However, what can be in breach of the terms and conditions is to buy a ticket for a longer journey than desired and then get off at an intermediate station. If you read the comment to which you're replying, it's the "overlength ticket" that he is saying can be illegal.

saganus 8y ago

Why is it illegal and how do they enforce it? I know that something similar happens with airplane tickets but they get you with the luggage and with terms & conditions AFAIK. How is it similar/different with train tickets?

buckminster 8y ago
It is illegal because the railway byelaws make it illegal. The railway doesn't just have its own law, it also has its own police force, The British Transport Police, though as far as I know they don't do the ticket enforcement. You are not allowed to break a journey either, so a ticket inspector can spot a ticket for a longer journey at one end of the other. The multiple tickets ruse is more of a grey area.
- DonaldFisk 8y ago
  BREAK OF JOURNEY Rules vary by train company and route. In general you cannot break your outward journey (except for necessary changes of train) but you can break your return journey. Source: https://www.splityourticket.co.uk/info/fare-types.aspx https://www.splityourticket.co.uk/info/fare-types.aspx I've already dealt with the legality of split ticketing in another post.
  - aaaaaaaaaab 8y ago
    And how do they enforce it? Chain you to the train?
    - anticensor 8y ago
      No, they fine at exit.
  - exikyut 8y ago
    Huh. I wonder if it would be cheaper to do a ticket like start -> actual destination (stay on train) -> overshoot destination (get off) (get back on) -> (turn around; begin return trip) -> actual destination (get off) (get back on) -> start ? Seems utterly unintuitive, and it probably is, but I am curious.
    - ColinWright 8y ago
      That can be possible, and I have done it. Part of the reason for all this is that the train system has been broken up into a collection of franchises. Some companies will then incentivise some journeys, and so the fare doesn't always reflect the time or distance of the journey being made. As a result you can find and exploit anomalies, but only if you're willing to spend the (sometimes considerable) time and effort.
  - ColinWright 8y ago
    The National Conditions of Carriage actually permit breaking an outbound journey, provided the ticket remains valid for the continuation. Outbound tickets are usually only valid on the day, so in that case you can't continue the journey the next day. But a regular standard (or first-class) ticket on a train that's not the last train of the day can be broken on the outbound journey. For most tickets. Some tickets, such as Advance and some Super-Off-Peak, have additional conditions. However, I do have a letter from a train company saying that they were wrong to have charged for an extra ticket, and wrong to have tried to start proceedings. So breaking an outbound journey can be legal, and in such cases buying an over-length ticket is possible. It's circumstances like these that led in part to some of the specifics of the recent shake-up of the fare structures.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

DonaldFisk 8y ago

It's legal: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/fare-splitting-works-much-can-save-train-tickets/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/fare-spli... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19217111 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19217111 and there are web sites which do split ticketing: http://www.raileasy.co.uk/home/split-ticketing/ http://www.raileasy.co.uk/home/split-ticketing/ http://www.splitticketing.co.uk http://www.splitticketing.co.uk https://www.splityourticket.co.uk https://www.splityourticket.co.uk

buckminster 8y ago
Fair enough for split ticketing, but they prosecuted someone last year for overlong ticketing. It only failed because they got the facts (as opposed to the law) wrong.
ColinWright 8y ago
To be clearer, splitting tickets is legal, and while the second ticket may become invalid if the first train runs late, train companies now honour the second ticket if the reason you miss your train is because the incoming train has run late. However, what can be in breach of the terms and conditions is to buy a ticket for a longer journey than desired and then get off at an intermediate station. If you read the comment to which you're replying, it's the "overlength ticket" that he is saying can be illegal.