4 ms·

Those all applied in my case, and I simplified my original statement too much (I lost more than half because that's where I had saved funds that I had to use in

by dsnuh 8y ago

Those all applied in my case, and I simplified my original statement too much (I lost more than half because that's where I had saved funds that I had to use in the divorce to "offset" the other party's interest). My apologies. I guess the point I am trying to make is that I don't know if everyone realizes that if you are the only one in the household saving away for the future, that those savings are not "yours" if the marriage ends, even if your ex-spouse was absolutely frivolous with money, they will get half of anything you saved, and speaking from experience, that feeling absolutely sucks and was one that I am still trying to recover from years later.

asdfman123 8y ago
I'm scared. I'm a big saver and it's always been my goal to retire early, but I'm constantly having to push my fiancee not to throw away money frivolously. She also makes far less than me because she wants to work in a field where she makes a difference. She could make twice as much, but she chooses not to. We're not going to have kids, and we split chores equally. It seems messed up that the relationship is going to put me in worse state financially by subsidizing my partner, and on top of that the laws are structured to give her more money (even though she's fully capable of making more herself). I love her a great deal and our relationship is otherwise healthy, but I'm scared for a hypothetical situation where things go south. Expect the best, prepare for the worst, right?
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  Yikes. I did the homemaker thing. The ex was career military, we had special needs kids and I had serious health problems. It was the right thing to do, but I am still trying to get on my feet financially post divorce. We had a 1950s style marriage where he was the breadwinner. I come from a much more financially savvy and financially conservative family than he did. His idea of what to do with a pay raise: Finance more debt! I found it completely crazy making. I never want to be financially dependent on a man again. At some point, I decided the best thing I could do to make a damn difference in the world would be to leave behind my Pink Collar Ghetto aspirations and do any damn thing I want with my life instead of continuing to care about the world while the world doesn't give a flying fuck about me and my bills. I sometimes wish I could talk some sense into other women. If you need to express some need to care, get a pet. (No offense intended. I am trying to be sympathetic.)
  - dsnuh 8y ago
    No offense taken! Divorce is a shit sandwich, no matter which end you are on. If I may ask, were attorneys involved on either side in your case? I suspect that is the main differentiator between my experience and others that I have talked with that were able to settle on a sane number with their ex. My ex-wife and I did the homemaker thing too. A lot of my peer group did. I don't think it works these days. No offense intended, but just like you never hope to be financially dependent on a man, I hope to never have a woman that is financially dependent on me again.
    - DoreenMichele 8y ago
      were attorneys involved? No, we had a DIY divorce. I'm actually a rather skilled negotiator in some sense, though I don't usually say so because I think that gives people a completely different idea than what I really mean. I mean more like diplomat or like the guy in the movie The Negotiator. [1] We kept lawyers out of it and that meant there was more pie to go around because we weren't giving tens of thousands of dollars to lawyers. That made it easier for both of us to give a little here and there. My divorce was surprisingly amicable, more so than my marriage. We agreed ahead of time that we were not going to leave either party in a shithole of financial mess. (I sometimes joke that if we hated each other and wanted to make each other miserable, we could have just stayed together. :-P) I have been to his house once post divorce and met his new wife. His life seems to be pretty okay these days. [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120768/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120768/
      - dsnuh 8y ago
        Yeah, I was pretty skilled too, and we had it all agreed to, and then the night before the appearance she decided she wanted $20K for my unvested RSUs and $5K for a house with no community property value because we had used some money from an inheritance she got to replace the AC two years before we split. That's when the attorneys got called, and the rest is history. Your story sounds like most I have heard where no lawyers got involved. Hell hath no fury like a partner scorned (with a retainer). Glad to hear that you made it out without exercising Mutually Assured Destruction. :)
- dsnuh 8y ago
  Look, I'm bitter and angry about my situation, so take this with a grain of salt... I feel like the incompatibility we had in regards to savings, financial discipline, etc., should have been a much bigger red flag to me. If you are having these sorts of doubts, I would think long and hard before making the commitment that goes along with marriage. If you do get married, and it doesn't work out, just make sure you divorce before the 10 year mark, or you will have no set end to spousal support. If you divorce before 10 years, you will normally pay spousal support for half the length of the marriage (about 4 years in my case). If you have kids, all bets are off and you will likely be on the hook for spousal, child support,(plus half of medical expenses, extra-curricular activities, and child care costs while your ex-spouse works - this is on top of monthly child support), you will be required to maintain health insurance for the children, you may get your wages garnished, you may get Smith-Ostler riders for 12% of any bonus or unexpected income towards more child support, legal fees, therapist fees (very easy to have a therapy order in place for children and/or the parent(s)), etc. That said, anything you have saved before marriage is yours to keep if you divorce, so there's that aspect to keep in mind.
- cerberusss 8y ago
  You don't need to marry, right? I mean, what is your reason to do so? In your case, I don't see a whole lot of pros and a number of cons.

by dsnuh 8y ago

asdfman123 8y ago

I'm scared. I'm a big saver and it's always been my goal to retire early, but I'm constantly having to push my fiancee not to throw away money frivolously. She also makes far less than me because she wants to work in a field where she makes a difference. She could make twice as much, but she chooses not to. We're not going to have kids, and we split chores equally. It seems messed up that the relationship is going to put me in worse state financially by subsidizing my partner, and on top of that the laws are structured to give her more money (even though she's fully capable of making more herself). I love her a great deal and our relationship is otherwise healthy, but I'm scared for a hypothetical situation where things go south. Expect the best, prepare for the worst, right?

DoreenMichele 8y ago
Yikes. I did the homemaker thing. The ex was career military, we had special needs kids and I had serious health problems. It was the right thing to do, but I am still trying to get on my feet financially post divorce. We had a 1950s style marriage where he was the breadwinner. I come from a much more financially savvy and financially conservative family than he did. His idea of what to do with a pay raise: Finance more debt! I found it completely crazy making. I never want to be financially dependent on a man again. At some point, I decided the best thing I could do to make a damn difference in the world would be to leave behind my Pink Collar Ghetto aspirations and do any damn thing I want with my life instead of continuing to care about the world while the world doesn't give a flying fuck about me and my bills. I sometimes wish I could talk some sense into other women. If you need to express some need to care, get a pet. (No offense intended. I am trying to be sympathetic.)
- dsnuh 8y ago
  No offense taken! Divorce is a shit sandwich, no matter which end you are on. If I may ask, were attorneys involved on either side in your case? I suspect that is the main differentiator between my experience and others that I have talked with that were able to settle on a sane number with their ex. My ex-wife and I did the homemaker thing too. A lot of my peer group did. I don't think it works these days. No offense intended, but just like you never hope to be financially dependent on a man, I hope to never have a woman that is financially dependent on me again.
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    were attorneys involved? No, we had a DIY divorce. I'm actually a rather skilled negotiator in some sense, though I don't usually say so because I think that gives people a completely different idea than what I really mean. I mean more like diplomat or like the guy in the movie The Negotiator. [1] We kept lawyers out of it and that meant there was more pie to go around because we weren't giving tens of thousands of dollars to lawyers. That made it easier for both of us to give a little here and there. My divorce was surprisingly amicable, more so than my marriage. We agreed ahead of time that we were not going to leave either party in a shithole of financial mess. (I sometimes joke that if we hated each other and wanted to make each other miserable, we could have just stayed together. :-P) I have been to his house once post divorce and met his new wife. His life seems to be pretty okay these days. [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120768/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120768/
    - dsnuh 8y ago
      Yeah, I was pretty skilled too, and we had it all agreed to, and then the night before the appearance she decided she wanted $20K for my unvested RSUs and $5K for a house with no community property value because we had used some money from an inheritance she got to replace the AC two years before we split. That's when the attorneys got called, and the rest is history. Your story sounds like most I have heard where no lawyers got involved. Hell hath no fury like a partner scorned (with a retainer). Glad to hear that you made it out without exercising Mutually Assured Destruction. :)
dsnuh 8y ago
Look, I'm bitter and angry about my situation, so take this with a grain of salt... I feel like the incompatibility we had in regards to savings, financial discipline, etc., should have been a much bigger red flag to me. If you are having these sorts of doubts, I would think long and hard before making the commitment that goes along with marriage. If you do get married, and it doesn't work out, just make sure you divorce before the 10 year mark, or you will have no set end to spousal support. If you divorce before 10 years, you will normally pay spousal support for half the length of the marriage (about 4 years in my case). If you have kids, all bets are off and you will likely be on the hook for spousal, child support,(plus half of medical expenses, extra-curricular activities, and child care costs while your ex-spouse works - this is on top of monthly child support), you will be required to maintain health insurance for the children, you may get your wages garnished, you may get Smith-Ostler riders for 12% of any bonus or unexpected income towards more child support, legal fees, therapist fees (very easy to have a therapy order in place for children and/or the parent(s)), etc. That said, anything you have saved before marriage is yours to keep if you divorce, so there's that aspect to keep in mind.
cerberusss 8y ago
You don't need to marry, right? I mean, what is your reason to do so? In your case, I don't see a whole lot of pros and a number of cons.