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True in theory, but virtually every mainstream "flat tax" that actually gets to the stage of having a concrete proposal acknowledges the need for deductions. I

by bmm6o 8y ago

True in theory, but virtually every mainstream "flat tax" that actually gets to the stage of having a concrete proposal acknowledges the need for deductions. I don't recall ever seeing a true flat tax.

avar 8y ago
There's flat tax proposals and implementations at every level of the economy in different countries, not all of them have to do with income tax. E.g. the case of the warm and cold chicken being taxed at different rates, as described in the linked Economist article. It's common in places with such a distinction in the tax code for some stores to sell packaged cold food clearly intended to be eaten on the go, and then to conveniently offer a customer-operated microwave on-site partly as a way to avoid paying a tax that distinguishes between food sold as groceries v.s. take-away food. I'm not advocating for flat taxes, but it is correct to say that such proposals in general do away with such emergent absurdities, and decrease the need for government bureaucracy.
- chc 8y ago
  This thread is specifically talking about tax plans from Republicans in the US Congress.
- bmm6o 8y ago
  That there are gray areas (groceries vs restaurants) that can be difficult or because the math is slightly more challenging are not persuasive arguments, to me. As universal as a "flat" income tax having deductions are sales taxes having exemptions, so they also are never "flat" in practice either.
bmm6o 8y ago
And at that point, you've pretty much acknowledged that a true flat tax is unfair and regressive, and now we're just arguing over how many tax brackets there should be. You want there to be 1 but propose 2 with no argument for why 2 is the optimal number. While I agree that there is marginal complexity with each one, that only affects people who do their own taxes by hand. Structure it so that most people are covered by the bottom 4, say, and I have no problem with a dozen or more.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > While I agree that there is marginal complexity with each one, that only affects people who do their own taxes by hand. The complexity of the formula generating the lookup table doesn't affect the users of the lookup table, so I disagree: number of brackets has no meaningful effect on complexity of manual preparation.

by bmm6o 8y ago

avar 8y ago

There's flat tax proposals and implementations at every level of the economy in different countries, not all of them have to do with income tax. E.g. the case of the warm and cold chicken being taxed at different rates, as described in the linked Economist article. It's common in places with such a distinction in the tax code for some stores to sell packaged cold food clearly intended to be eaten on the go, and then to conveniently offer a customer-operated microwave on-site partly as a way to avoid paying a tax that distinguishes between food sold as groceries v.s. take-away food. I'm not advocating for flat taxes, but it is correct to say that such proposals in general do away with such emergent absurdities, and decrease the need for government bureaucracy.

chc 8y ago
This thread is specifically talking about tax plans from Republicans in the US Congress.
bmm6o 8y ago
That there are gray areas (groceries vs restaurants) that can be difficult or because the math is slightly more challenging are not persuasive arguments, to me. As universal as a "flat" income tax having deductions are sales taxes having exemptions, so they also are never "flat" in practice either.

bmm6o 8y ago

And at that point, you've pretty much acknowledged that a true flat tax is unfair and regressive, and now we're just arguing over how many tax brackets there should be. You want there to be 1 but propose 2 with no argument for why 2 is the optimal number. While I agree that there is marginal complexity with each one, that only affects people who do their own taxes by hand. Structure it so that most people are covered by the bottom 4, say, and I have no problem with a dozen or more.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> While I agree that there is marginal complexity with each one, that only affects people who do their own taxes by hand. The complexity of the formula generating the lookup table doesn't affect the users of the lookup table, so I disagree: number of brackets has no meaningful effect on complexity of manual preparation.