5 ms·

The Democrats also would never go through with this. The Democrats are Establishment Elite who have everything absolutely perfect right now except for a little

The Democrats also would never go through with this. The Democrats are Establishment Elite who have everything absolutely perfect right now except for a little push from the far left that they're trying to crush. Get this idea out of your head that the Democrats in the current form even give the slightest of shit about American's ability to vote safely & securely unless it has something do with Russia.

beat 8y ago
When you say "The Democrats", who are you talking about, exactly? Because I'm pretty sure every rank and file Democrat I know would agree with me on this issue.
- prolikewh0a 8y ago
  >When you say "The Democrats", who are you talking about, exactly DNC, DCCC, the people who control the party. The actual people who vote would agree, but the party leadership itself does not care.
  - beat 8y ago
    I don't find defeatist conspiracy theories about the Powers That Be to be a very convincing argument.
    - prolikewh0a 8y ago
      They're not conspiracy theories at all. The establishment Democrats just don't care, and don't align with the voters in the party. They vote in line with Republicans and Trump over and over. Here are some recent examples, they're essentially neoconservatives at this point. Schumer won't whip votes to block Kavanaugh [1]. Democrats voted overwhelmingly in favor of the largest Military defense budget in history [2]. Tom Perez reversed a ban on taking donations from fossil fuel companies [3]. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/schumer-plays-long-game-avoids-hardball-with-centrist-democrats-over-supreme-court-pick/2018/07/27/f3fb86dc-90d2-11e8-b769-e3fff17f0689_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.bfc3e89562a5 https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/schumer-plays-long-... [2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/eriksherman/2018/06/20/house-and-senate-democrats-vote-68-percent-and-85-percent-for-massive-military-spending/#7997d6f45101 https://www.forbes.com/sites/eriksherman/2018/06/20/house-an... [3] http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/401356-dnc-passes-resolution-on-fossil-fuel-donations http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/401356-dnc-pass...
    - davidw 8y ago
      No kidding. Both parties are huge, and have a wide, wide variety of people in them in any event.
      - prolikewh0a 8y ago
        >Both parties are huge, and have a wide, wide variety of people in them in any event. What does this even mean? I clearly stated leadership. The voters want to help themselves and others with things like a green new deal, medicare/medicaid for all, free college/trade, but the leadership continuously votes against the actual voters that identify as being in the Democratic Party.
- mistermann 8y ago
  > Because I'm pretty sure every rank and file Democrat I know would agree with me on this issue. And yet, here we are, despite voting machines and paper ballots have been a topic of discussion for a very long time in the US. Above you say "The GOP won't, for, um, reasons", but I'm not aware of Democrat politicians and the overall party pushing this initiative in any particularly noteworthy way either. Am I missing something, or are you holding them to a lower standard?
  - davidw 8y ago
    Did, uh, you see my post up there about Ron Wyden? He's a politician, and a Democrat.
    - mistermann 8y ago
      I did, but I don't see the relevance to my question as written.
  - beat 8y ago
    Not that HN is a good venue for partisan bickering, but... I think the GOP has been actively involved with voter suppression and manipulation since the outcome of the 2000 election. The whole push for touchscreen voting machines in the first place is to weaken the electoral process, imho. So no, they're not going to push for an all-paper system, and they'll resist such a push. Democrats don't have an interest in actively undermining the verification of the voting process. Clean elections are better for them, generally, so they have no reason to be opposed. So no, not a lower standard. Just different interests. If the Democrats had the kind of anti-democratic interests the GOP does, they'd be doing the same things the GOP does. But they don't, and distrust in the process of voting itself is a major problem with America today. Pushing for free, fair, and understandable elections is a political winner for Democrats.

beat 8y ago

When you say "The Democrats", who are you talking about, exactly? Because I'm pretty sure every rank and file Democrat I know would agree with me on this issue.

prolikewh0a 8y ago
>When you say "The Democrats", who are you talking about, exactly DNC, DCCC, the people who control the party. The actual people who vote would agree, but the party leadership itself does not care.
- beat 8y ago
  I don't find defeatist conspiracy theories about the Powers That Be to be a very convincing argument.
  - prolikewh0a 8y ago
    They're not conspiracy theories at all. The establishment Democrats just don't care, and don't align with the voters in the party. They vote in line with Republicans and Trump over and over. Here are some recent examples, they're essentially neoconservatives at this point. Schumer won't whip votes to block Kavanaugh [1]. Democrats voted overwhelmingly in favor of the largest Military defense budget in history [2]. Tom Perez reversed a ban on taking donations from fossil fuel companies [3]. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/schumer-plays-long-game-avoids-hardball-with-centrist-democrats-over-supreme-court-pick/2018/07/27/f3fb86dc-90d2-11e8-b769-e3fff17f0689_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.bfc3e89562a5 https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/schumer-plays-long-... [2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/eriksherman/2018/06/20/house-and-senate-democrats-vote-68-percent-and-85-percent-for-massive-military-spending/#7997d6f45101 https://www.forbes.com/sites/eriksherman/2018/06/20/house-an... [3] http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/401356-dnc-passes-resolution-on-fossil-fuel-donations http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/401356-dnc-pass...
  - davidw 8y ago
    No kidding. Both parties are huge, and have a wide, wide variety of people in them in any event.
    - prolikewh0a 8y ago
      >Both parties are huge, and have a wide, wide variety of people in them in any event. What does this even mean? I clearly stated leadership. The voters want to help themselves and others with things like a green new deal, medicare/medicaid for all, free college/trade, but the leadership continuously votes against the actual voters that identify as being in the Democratic Party.
mistermann 8y ago
> Because I'm pretty sure every rank and file Democrat I know would agree with me on this issue. And yet, here we are, despite voting machines and paper ballots have been a topic of discussion for a very long time in the US. Above you say "The GOP won't, for, um, reasons", but I'm not aware of Democrat politicians and the overall party pushing this initiative in any particularly noteworthy way either. Am I missing something, or are you holding them to a lower standard?
- davidw 8y ago
  Did, uh, you see my post up there about Ron Wyden? He's a politician, and a Democrat.
  - mistermann 8y ago
    I did, but I don't see the relevance to my question as written.
- beat 8y ago
  Not that HN is a good venue for partisan bickering, but... I think the GOP has been actively involved with voter suppression and manipulation since the outcome of the 2000 election. The whole push for touchscreen voting machines in the first place is to weaken the electoral process, imho. So no, they're not going to push for an all-paper system, and they'll resist such a push. Democrats don't have an interest in actively undermining the verification of the voting process. Clean elections are better for them, generally, so they have no reason to be opposed. So no, not a lower standard. Just different interests. If the Democrats had the kind of anti-democratic interests the GOP does, they'd be doing the same things the GOP does. But they don't, and distrust in the process of voting itself is a major problem with America today. Pushing for free, fair, and understandable elections is a political winner for Democrats.