5 ms·

But why do you need to put the foxes to sleep? For a lot of people, that part is the immoral bit, whether the fur is used or not.

gambiting 8y ago
Because keeping them alive costs money. Same reason why dog shelters have to put down some dogs from time to time too.
owlmirror 8y ago
What do you propose to do with them? You can't release them, through breeding these foxes are not suited for the wildlife. They are not as afraid as wild foxes and will become a danger to humans. Raising them is not sustainable. And why should using their fur be immoral in comparision to using farmed cows meat? I mean you can personally object to both, but most of society disagrees with you and does not believe that killing animals for fur/leather/meat is immoral.
exikyut 8y ago
[moderate NSFW] What I find immoral is not putting them to sleep. Some fur farms do literally skin foxes alive. This is because, __if I remember correctly__, ripping the pelt off in one go produces something of the highest quality/grade because the fox was standing on its feet while the skinning took place. I think if it's lying down it flattens the pelt out, and there's some risk of tearing. At least, I think this is what I read. I'm not trying to editorialize/dramatize, but all I can vaguely remember from that one random webpage I found showed a skinned fox('s insides), so that's what got mentally filed away... it wasn't (that) horrible (well, if you basically switch your emotions off), but that impression kind of took precedence over remembering anything else from the webpage, which I (unfortunately) cannot possibly remember where to find now. In any case, I remember there being a legitimate reason other than pure maliciousness, and I think it was something to do with pelt quality. I think some places use a two-electrode stun/kill technique; one probe end goes in the, uh, back; and the other probe (perhaps it's a ball? I've never cared to find out) goes in the mouth. Bang. I have, for the purposes of simplicity, decided that this method is reasonably humane. (Hopefully it doesn't burn the tongue?) I wouldn't mind hearing others' opinions. (Written very late, excuse tiredness)
- dropit_sphere 8y ago
  God forgive us. Reading that you might get the impression that I am now off to bomb a fur facility or something. No; I get it; I eat meat, and I can understand how our use of animals contributes to the survival of their species (if cows weren't good to eat, we'd have far fewer of them, etc.). And I believe people when they say they try to kill in a humane way. But 500 years from now, when we can grow meat and leather and what-have-you, they will look on us as barbarians. I don't have a so-what. Just a sense that animal products are in some way sacred, and deserve our respect at the very least. EDIT: I am reminded of the "stroggification" scene from Quake IV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJwyjWpP4XA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJwyjWpP4XA (NSFW)
- cimmanom 8y ago
  Do you have a citation for the bit about foxes being skinned alive? (It's not that I necessarily doubt it, but I would hate to be misinformed about it in either direction.)
- war1025 8y ago
  Wikipedia has a section at the bottom of the article on skinning about the live-skinning thing. Sounds like it is most likely a made up claim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinning

gambiting 8y ago

Because keeping them alive costs money. Same reason why dog shelters have to put down some dogs from time to time too.

owlmirror 8y ago

What do you propose to do with them? You can't release them, through breeding these foxes are not suited for the wildlife. They are not as afraid as wild foxes and will become a danger to humans. Raising them is not sustainable. And why should using their fur be immoral in comparision to using farmed cows meat? I mean you can personally object to both, but most of society disagrees with you and does not believe that killing animals for fur/leather/meat is immoral.

exikyut 8y ago

[moderate NSFW] What I find immoral is not putting them to sleep. Some fur farms do literally skin foxes alive. This is because, __if I remember correctly__, ripping the pelt off in one go produces something of the highest quality/grade because the fox was standing on its feet while the skinning took place. I think if it's lying down it flattens the pelt out, and there's some risk of tearing. At least, I think this is what I read. I'm not trying to editorialize/dramatize, but all I can vaguely remember from that one random webpage I found showed a skinned fox('s insides), so that's what got mentally filed away... it wasn't (that) horrible (well, if you basically switch your emotions off), but that impression kind of took precedence over remembering anything else from the webpage, which I (unfortunately) cannot possibly remember where to find now. In any case, I remember there being a legitimate reason other than pure maliciousness, and I think it was something to do with pelt quality. I think some places use a two-electrode stun/kill technique; one probe end goes in the, uh, back; and the other probe (perhaps it's a ball? I've never cared to find out) goes in the mouth. Bang. I have, for the purposes of simplicity, decided that this method is reasonably humane. (Hopefully it doesn't burn the tongue?) I wouldn't mind hearing others' opinions. (Written very late, excuse tiredness)

dropit_sphere 8y ago
God forgive us. Reading that you might get the impression that I am now off to bomb a fur facility or something. No; I get it; I eat meat, and I can understand how our use of animals contributes to the survival of their species (if cows weren't good to eat, we'd have far fewer of them, etc.). And I believe people when they say they try to kill in a humane way. But 500 years from now, when we can grow meat and leather and what-have-you, they will look on us as barbarians. I don't have a so-what. Just a sense that animal products are in some way sacred, and deserve our respect at the very least. EDIT: I am reminded of the "stroggification" scene from Quake IV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJwyjWpP4XA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJwyjWpP4XA (NSFW)
cimmanom 8y ago
Do you have a citation for the bit about foxes being skinned alive? (It's not that I necessarily doubt it, but I would hate to be misinformed about it in either direction.)
war1025 8y ago
Wikipedia has a section at the bottom of the article on skinning about the live-skinning thing. Sounds like it is most likely a made up claim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinning