3 ms·

Sounds very appealing, but combine Intel ME with the fact that the laptop is made by a Chinese firm and the fact that Lenovo has previously snuck spyware onto i

by zeveb 8y ago

Sounds very appealing, but combine Intel ME with the fact that the laptop is made by a Chinese firm and the fact that Lenovo has previously snuck spyware onto its machines — I don't think one can really trust it to be secure, even running Linux.

zamalek 8y ago
> snuck spyware onto its machines This is a very real concern. How can we be sure that they aren't doing this again? A security audit is not part of the review.
- stevesimmons 8y ago
  You nuke the OS it comes with and install your own. (on the assumption the main risk is Windows crapware installed at the end of manufacturing rather than low-level firmware backdoors)
  - zamalek 8y ago
    SuperFish was installed via BIOS on fresh install: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150812/11395231925/lenovo-busted-stealthily-installing-crapware-via-bios-fresh-windows-installs.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150812/11395231925/lenov...
plainOldText 8y ago
I think this is a legitimate concern. That’s one reason I only buy MacBooks. I trust Apple more than other companies.
- diffeomorphism 8y ago
  > I trust Apple more than other companies. Any particular reason why? Apple always seemed quite anti-user to me with "you are holding it wrong", walled gardens, incompatible ports,...
  - Lio 8y ago
    Whilst that's true for one reason or another they have also been quite pro-privacy. Maybe that would be different if their own ad network had taken off but it hasn't. So whilst Apple have been putting anti-tracking features in their products [0] Lenovo have been putting putting rootkits on their laptops [1] in theirs. Personally I think I'm going to move to a Dell XPS 13 with Ubuntu. [0] https://guce.oath.com/collectConsent?brandType=eu&.done=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.engadget.com%2F2017%2F09%2F16%2Fadvertisers-are-upset-with-safaris-new-anti-tracking-features%2F%3Fguccounter%3D1&sessionId=3_cc-session_bba5b768-3546-49b4-85d7-70b07d0eb162&lang=en-GB&inline=false https://guce.oath.com/collectConsent?brandType=eu&.done=http... [1] https://www.zdnet.com/article/lenovo-rootkit-ensured-its-software-could-not-be-deleted/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/lenovo-rootkit-ensured-its-sof...
    - izacus 8y ago
      They just sold out their Chinese users and allowed their government access to iPhones. Why would you trust them still?
  - plainOldText 8y ago
    Well, for one they have a reputation they need to maintain, so it's unlikely they would install malware or backdoors on their devices, as that would breach their users' trust; whereas Lenovo have no problem installing rootkits on theirs. It's also a question of principle/values, and I like Apple's more than the alternatives.
smacktoward 8y ago
> made by a Chinese firm So are MacBooks. Designed in California, sure, but they’re made in China.
- snerbles 8y ago
  Beyond that though, Lenovo has a track record of cramming pre-installed, hard-or-impossible-to-remove malware on its machines. On some models, it's even at the BIOS level [0]. At a minimum, I would be very suspicious of anything pre-installed on a Lenovo laptop and that includes the ones that ship with Ubuntu. [0] https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/12/lenovo_firmware_nasty/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/12/lenovo_firmware_nas...
  - diffeomorphism 8y ago
    Entirely different part of lenovo though. https://www.infoworld.com/article/2616335/techology-business/lenovo-to-create-thinkpad-focused-business-unit-to-compete-at-the-high-end.html https://www.infoworld.com/article/2616335/techology-business... So, while tangentially relevant, it is like bashing samsung washing machines for touchwiz on samsung phones.
    - snerbles 8y ago
      That analogy is a little disingenuous as both divisions make PCs. Executive management bears at least some responsibility in something as egregious as that - the fish rots from the head, as the expression goes.
    - gruez 8y ago
      >it is like bashing samsung washing machines for touchwiz on samsung phones. those aren't really the same. in lenovo's case was breaching the consumer's trust, whereas in your example, it's purely a design decision.
- zeveb 8y ago
  > So are MacBooks. I wouldn't consider a MacBook competition for one of these, because a MacBook doesn't cleanly run Linux. Maybe something from Purism?

by zeveb 8y ago

zamalek 8y ago

> snuck spyware onto its machines This is a very real concern. How can we be sure that they aren't doing this again? A security audit is not part of the review.

stevesimmons 8y ago
You nuke the OS it comes with and install your own. (on the assumption the main risk is Windows crapware installed at the end of manufacturing rather than low-level firmware backdoors)
- zamalek 8y ago
  SuperFish was installed via BIOS on fresh install: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150812/11395231925/lenovo-busted-stealthily-installing-crapware-via-bios-fresh-windows-installs.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150812/11395231925/lenov...

plainOldText 8y ago

I think this is a legitimate concern. That’s one reason I only buy MacBooks. I trust Apple more than other companies.

diffeomorphism 8y ago
> I trust Apple more than other companies. Any particular reason why? Apple always seemed quite anti-user to me with "you are holding it wrong", walled gardens, incompatible ports,...
- Lio 8y ago
  Whilst that's true for one reason or another they have also been quite pro-privacy. Maybe that would be different if their own ad network had taken off but it hasn't. So whilst Apple have been putting anti-tracking features in their products [0] Lenovo have been putting putting rootkits on their laptops [1] in theirs. Personally I think I'm going to move to a Dell XPS 13 with Ubuntu. [0] https://guce.oath.com/collectConsent?brandType=eu&.done=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.engadget.com%2F2017%2F09%2F16%2Fadvertisers-are-upset-with-safaris-new-anti-tracking-features%2F%3Fguccounter%3D1&sessionId=3_cc-session_bba5b768-3546-49b4-85d7-70b07d0eb162&lang=en-GB&inline=false https://guce.oath.com/collectConsent?brandType=eu&.done=http... [1] https://www.zdnet.com/article/lenovo-rootkit-ensured-its-software-could-not-be-deleted/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/lenovo-rootkit-ensured-its-sof...
  - izacus 8y ago
    They just sold out their Chinese users and allowed their government access to iPhones. Why would you trust them still?
- plainOldText 8y ago
  Well, for one they have a reputation they need to maintain, so it's unlikely they would install malware or backdoors on their devices, as that would breach their users' trust; whereas Lenovo have no problem installing rootkits on theirs. It's also a question of principle/values, and I like Apple's more than the alternatives.

smacktoward 8y ago

> made by a Chinese firm So are MacBooks. Designed in California, sure, but they’re made in China.

snerbles 8y ago
Beyond that though, Lenovo has a track record of cramming pre-installed, hard-or-impossible-to-remove malware on its machines. On some models, it's even at the BIOS level [0]. At a minimum, I would be very suspicious of anything pre-installed on a Lenovo laptop and that includes the ones that ship with Ubuntu. [0] https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/12/lenovo_firmware_nasty/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/12/lenovo_firmware_nas...
- diffeomorphism 8y ago
  Entirely different part of lenovo though. https://www.infoworld.com/article/2616335/techology-business/lenovo-to-create-thinkpad-focused-business-unit-to-compete-at-the-high-end.html https://www.infoworld.com/article/2616335/techology-business... So, while tangentially relevant, it is like bashing samsung washing machines for touchwiz on samsung phones.
  - snerbles 8y ago
    That analogy is a little disingenuous as both divisions make PCs. Executive management bears at least some responsibility in something as egregious as that - the fish rots from the head, as the expression goes.
  - gruez 8y ago
    >it is like bashing samsung washing machines for touchwiz on samsung phones. those aren't really the same. in lenovo's case was breaching the consumer's trust, whereas in your example, it's purely a design decision.
zeveb 8y ago
> So are MacBooks. I wouldn't consider a MacBook competition for one of these, because a MacBook doesn't cleanly run Linux. Maybe something from Purism?