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Greater good? For all the advantages and potential success of TSLA, it is in a precarious financial position and could fail. If the Saudis want to dump money in

Greater good? For all the advantages and potential success of TSLA, it is in a precarious financial position and could fail. If the Saudis want to dump money into it and accelerate the world's transition to solar and electric cars, seems like a net win to me.

nathanvanfleet 8y ago
By any means necessary I guess.
rsynnott 8y ago
If Tesla collapsed tomorrow, I don't see that that'd make a huge difference to adoption of electric cars in the long-term. Arguably, Nissan collapsing would be worse. The Leaf is a much better model for widespread adoption than Tesla's stuff.
- MrEfficiency 8y ago
  I was going to say GM's Bolt/Volt since it was one of those 'best cars of the year'. If that fails + is electric, thats a bad indicator for the future. Tesla gets a pat on the back for trying to be new/different. The quality of Tesla is nothing like established companies. You cant even blame Tesla, they dont have data like a company thats been around for decades.
  - rsynnott 8y ago
    > I was going to say GM's Bolt/Volt since it was one of those 'best cars of the year'. Barely available outside the US. There's the Opel Ampera, which is mostly a GM Volt, but it's weirdly expensive so no-one buys it. The Leaf is the world's best-selling electric car, for now (especially if you include its very close relatives like the Renault Zoe; I don't think that's precisely the same platform, but it's close).
    - MrEfficiency 8y ago
      >but it's weirdly expensive so no-one buys it. But isnt that the same problem with the Tesla?
    - nickik 8y ago
      Is the Model 3 not already massivly outselling Leaf month by month? Can you show some date on that?
      - rsynnott 8y ago
        Hard to come by proper figures for the 2018 Leaf currently, but Nissan has said they're selling one every 10 minutes in Europe. That'd be a little over 4000 a month. They're presumably also selling some in Japan and the US (looks like 1-2000 in the US), so all in all they pretty much have to be outselling the Model 3.
        humantiy 8y ago
        It's also worth noting for Nissan those are people buying the car at a dealership (not preordered) and driving away with it presumably that day. A lot of Tesla's numbers are filling all the preorders of people who have been waiting months to a year. What will happen when they finally complete all those orders of people waiting? That isn't to say sales will stop but certainly there has to be some consideration there.
        nickik 8y ago
        Tesla is also able to sustain the S/X without lots of pre-orders. Tesla has also said that they can see a sustained growth in orders in addition to the backlog. At some point they will reach some steady state number.
        greglindahl 8y ago
        Model 3 US sales were 14,250 last month (July). That's what I was getting at when I asked you about the Leaf getting dethroned. https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/ https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/
  - nickik 8y ago
    The Bolt is cheap and quck compliance car. Its sales have alread dropped like a stone, the Model 3 is outselling it 12:1 and that will increase month over month. Claiming Tesla quality is not as good as established players is wrong in most regards. Maybe GM built a better frame and maybe the fit and finish is a bit better but thats about it. In terms of battery, electronics, electrical, interial design, software integration, suspention, safty, surounding infrastructure and most other things Tesla is lightyears ahead of the Bolt. Literllay every single Bolt produced loses about 7000$-10000$. It will not be produced in large not be produced in large numbers for many years at best.
    - greglindahl 8y ago
      The phrase "compliance car" is generally used to refer only to low-range, lower-priced cars sold only because California forced them to. The Bolt has a much longer range and is higher priced than GM's previous compliance cars.
      - nickik 8y ago
        Its a compliance car because the way the fuel efficiency regulation works requires companies to have a balance of cars. I'm not from the US so I don't really understand it. The Bolt is probably better then other compliance cars because they can see the future as well. Also who would buy those even lower range cars now that there is more competition.
        MrEfficiency 8y ago
        Careful speaking about things you are unfamiliar with. This does more harm than good.
        nickik 8y ago
        What are you talking about? The regulations are real, even if I don't fully understand how exactly the work. Just because the current 'compliance car' and the Bolt are not the same does not mean its not for many of the same reasons. They did built the Bolt to be able to comply with regulation EVEN while the Bolt itself is losing money per car.
- belltaco 8y ago
  I think Tesla cars are the big reason for the halo effect that is taking hold of electric cars being luxury item muscle cars rather than the popular perception that cars like the Prius and Leaf are "wimpy" weak cars. Pickup trucks and SUVs are very popular in the US, and people are not going to easily switch to cars like the Leaf. Without Tesla I think the process is going to set back at least several years. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/06/the-steadily-disappearing-american-car.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/06/the-steadily-disappearing-am...
VectorLock 8y ago
Saudis accelerating the world's transition to solar? That might not be in their best interests or they're extremely forward thinking.
- Yoric 8y ago
  They are trying to be very forward thinking. They are in the process of diversifying their investments, investing more in infrastructure and education, etc. Basically, they are betting against oil within 10-20 years.
  - julienfr112 8y ago
    or just hedging : If we continue with oil, they will be ok. If we go solar or wind, they win also.
  - nickik 8y ago
    What they are doing if feably deversifing their investment fund because all their other initiatives have stalled horribly and they have a huge deficit so this strategy will not save them.

nathanvanfleet 8y ago

By any means necessary I guess.

rsynnott 8y ago

If Tesla collapsed tomorrow, I don't see that that'd make a huge difference to adoption of electric cars in the long-term. Arguably, Nissan collapsing would be worse. The Leaf is a much better model for widespread adoption than Tesla's stuff.

MrEfficiency 8y ago
I was going to say GM's Bolt/Volt since it was one of those 'best cars of the year'. If that fails + is electric, thats a bad indicator for the future. Tesla gets a pat on the back for trying to be new/different. The quality of Tesla is nothing like established companies. You cant even blame Tesla, they dont have data like a company thats been around for decades.
- rsynnott 8y ago
  > I was going to say GM's Bolt/Volt since it was one of those 'best cars of the year'. Barely available outside the US. There's the Opel Ampera, which is mostly a GM Volt, but it's weirdly expensive so no-one buys it. The Leaf is the world's best-selling electric car, for now (especially if you include its very close relatives like the Renault Zoe; I don't think that's precisely the same platform, but it's close).
  - MrEfficiency 8y ago
    >but it's weirdly expensive so no-one buys it. But isnt that the same problem with the Tesla?
  - nickik 8y ago
    Is the Model 3 not already massivly outselling Leaf month by month? Can you show some date on that?
    - rsynnott 8y ago
      Hard to come by proper figures for the 2018 Leaf currently, but Nissan has said they're selling one every 10 minutes in Europe. That'd be a little over 4000 a month. They're presumably also selling some in Japan and the US (looks like 1-2000 in the US), so all in all they pretty much have to be outselling the Model 3.
      - humantiy 8y ago
        It's also worth noting for Nissan those are people buying the car at a dealership (not preordered) and driving away with it presumably that day. A lot of Tesla's numbers are filling all the preorders of people who have been waiting months to a year. What will happen when they finally complete all those orders of people waiting? That isn't to say sales will stop but certainly there has to be some consideration there.
        nickik 8y ago
        Tesla is also able to sustain the S/X without lots of pre-orders. Tesla has also said that they can see a sustained growth in orders in addition to the backlog. At some point they will reach some steady state number.
      - greglindahl 8y ago
        Model 3 US sales were 14,250 last month (July). That's what I was getting at when I asked you about the Leaf getting dethroned. https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/ https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/
- nickik 8y ago
  The Bolt is cheap and quck compliance car. Its sales have alread dropped like a stone, the Model 3 is outselling it 12:1 and that will increase month over month. Claiming Tesla quality is not as good as established players is wrong in most regards. Maybe GM built a better frame and maybe the fit and finish is a bit better but thats about it. In terms of battery, electronics, electrical, interial design, software integration, suspention, safty, surounding infrastructure and most other things Tesla is lightyears ahead of the Bolt. Literllay every single Bolt produced loses about 7000$-10000$. It will not be produced in large not be produced in large numbers for many years at best.
  - greglindahl 8y ago
    The phrase "compliance car" is generally used to refer only to low-range, lower-priced cars sold only because California forced them to. The Bolt has a much longer range and is higher priced than GM's previous compliance cars.
    - nickik 8y ago
      Its a compliance car because the way the fuel efficiency regulation works requires companies to have a balance of cars. I'm not from the US so I don't really understand it. The Bolt is probably better then other compliance cars because they can see the future as well. Also who would buy those even lower range cars now that there is more competition.
      - MrEfficiency 8y ago
        Careful speaking about things you are unfamiliar with. This does more harm than good.
        nickik 8y ago
        What are you talking about? The regulations are real, even if I don't fully understand how exactly the work. Just because the current 'compliance car' and the Bolt are not the same does not mean its not for many of the same reasons. They did built the Bolt to be able to comply with regulation EVEN while the Bolt itself is losing money per car.
belltaco 8y ago
I think Tesla cars are the big reason for the halo effect that is taking hold of electric cars being luxury item muscle cars rather than the popular perception that cars like the Prius and Leaf are "wimpy" weak cars. Pickup trucks and SUVs are very popular in the US, and people are not going to easily switch to cars like the Leaf. Without Tesla I think the process is going to set back at least several years. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/06/the-steadily-disappearing-american-car.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/06/the-steadily-disappearing-am...

VectorLock 8y ago

Saudis accelerating the world's transition to solar? That might not be in their best interests or they're extremely forward thinking.

Yoric 8y ago
They are trying to be very forward thinking. They are in the process of diversifying their investments, investing more in infrastructure and education, etc. Basically, they are betting against oil within 10-20 years.
- julienfr112 8y ago
  or just hedging : If we continue with oil, they will be ok. If we go solar or wind, they win also.
- nickik 8y ago
  What they are doing if feably deversifing their investment fund because all their other initiatives have stalled horribly and they have a huge deficit so this strategy will not save them.