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Without judgment of this particular loving human; Why is it considered heroic to go to war without questioning the men sending you there? The war in Iraq was po

Without judgment of this particular loving human; Why is it considered heroic to go to war without questioning the men sending you there? The war in Iraq was pointless and based on dubious logic which turned out to be a lie. Men considering going to another country far away to kill other men should think deeply about dedicating their bodies and family's futures to the fortunes of cowards. I obviously do not know this man's mind, but it is just so painful to read about such pointless waste and consider it as heroic. He was brave, courageous, loving, compassionate, but ultimately his death was a huge pointless tragedy in yet another war fought for assholes. Show me more heroes who stand up against this nonsense. Heroes who save lives by objecting to taking them. That's where our mindset needs to be to stop the horrors we constantly project to far shores to prop up our corrupt insidious military industry and line the pockets of dire schmucks. </rant> RIP, sorry for hijacking a sad story to vent.

senorjazz 8y ago
I agree. The societal view that joining the military and dying is a just and selfless act worthy of our thanks and praise has to end. More so when justification is to protect "our interests" and "our way of life" - when said way of life is to better ourselves due to the exploitation of others. Until the military is seen for what it is, war will be continual and cyclical until we destroy this planet and make it all but inhabitable.
jpamata 8y ago
The US has a million troops, only around ~40,000 are deployed in Afghanistan, Iraq, Kuwait, and Syria[0]. The majority of the military are deployed elsewhere, serving either as a deterrent (such as those in South Korea) or help with nation building, foreign aid, and peacekeeping (ex. anti-piracy, protecting trade routes). There are those who are unfortunate enough to be sent by politicians to the war zone at one point of their career. And when that happens, you may not agree with the politics but it is still part of your duty to follow. There is no room in the military for going against commands, else it would render the organization ineffective. Every country needs a military and whether you think that they are heroes or not, these are still people making a necessary sacrifice. Someone has to do it. Oftentimes, the media likes to only show the wartime aspect of the military, making people think that those who join the military are there because they want to kill. Nothing could be any further from the truth. [0] https://www.businessinsider.com/us-military-deployments-may-2017-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/us-military-deployments-may-...
Recurecur 8y ago
> Why is it considered heroic to go to war without questioning the men sending you there? In the military, it is not your position to question the government. It is your duty to follow orders. > The war in Iraq was pointless and based on dubious logic which turned out to be a lie. It was certainly not "pointless". It was based on the following: - Saddam was a bad actor who hated the US, and would readily provide materiel for use against the US - Iraq was known to have stockpiles of WMD - It was thought possible to transform Iraq from a dictatorship to a democracy that appreciated the US None of those points is in doubt. Aside from a possible nuclear program, Iraq was known to have weaponized anthrax and various chemical agents. Our allies including Britain endorsed the same intelligence. You might remember the celebrations in Baghdad when the US forces arrive and Saddam fled. Or the jubilation Iraqis showed after voting the first time. Time will tell how things work out in the long run, but it's hard to argue that Iraq is worse off today than it was under Saddam Hussein. Has everything worked out perfectly? No, but there have been many sub-optimal moves since the war started, including BO pulling out prematurely and on an announced schedule. Just remember, it's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- zenbai 8y ago
  Woah, I guess you never heard of ISIS
- monkeynotes 8y ago
  Where to start here. Well, let me preface by saying much of everything we are discussing is hugely influenced by what and individual's principles and beliefs are, I don't expect to change minds, and I accept other people have other opinions, I just want to defend mine. First - it's well known that no WMDs were found in Iraq[1], and with the publication of the Downing Street Memo[2] there is evidence that Bush's presidency went in likely knowing that. Bush just wanted war, with whatever justification he could find. Saddam and his hatred of the US is no justification of war. Plenty of nations rather dislike the US, but you can't just go in and 'make' them like you with guns. As bad as Saddam was, the death toll and utter hell brought upon Iraq's citizens by the invasion to 'bring democracy' is at best as bad as Saddam's regime. Some studies suggest half a million civilian deaths as a result of the war[3]. And let's be honest, Iraq was a huge catalyst for complete chaos in the middle east, which to this day is ongoing. ISIS grew out of the vacuum left by US forces 'liberation' of Iraqi's people. Jesus, what a fucking mess. Seriously, why am I even having to spell this out? Possible nuclear program??!!?! Give me a break. They found corroded, unusable chemical weapons which the UN mostly already knew about. And all that crap was probably best left rotting in Iraq than burning, and harming US forces as they tried to move it. Celebrations in Baghdad? I want to puke. Those poor people sold another lie, they were destined to suffer more. Now, down to following orders. I get that the military only works if everyone follows orders, I really do. However I will not be ordered to murder children for 'the greater cause', be that my country or god. There is a line any man/woman should refuse to cross, in my opinion, and as long as men do not question those who give the orders you cannot claim to have principles. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WMD_conjecture_in_the_aftermath_of_the_2003_invasion_of_Iraq https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WMD_conjecture_in_the_aftermat... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downing_Street_memo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downing_Street_memo [3] https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/15/iraq-death-toll_n_4102855.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/15/iraq-death-toll_n_...

senorjazz 8y ago

I agree. The societal view that joining the military and dying is a just and selfless act worthy of our thanks and praise has to end. More so when justification is to protect "our interests" and "our way of life" - when said way of life is to better ourselves due to the exploitation of others. Until the military is seen for what it is, war will be continual and cyclical until we destroy this planet and make it all but inhabitable.

jpamata 8y ago

The US has a million troops, only around ~40,000 are deployed in Afghanistan, Iraq, Kuwait, and Syria[0]. The majority of the military are deployed elsewhere, serving either as a deterrent (such as those in South Korea) or help with nation building, foreign aid, and peacekeeping (ex. anti-piracy, protecting trade routes). There are those who are unfortunate enough to be sent by politicians to the war zone at one point of their career. And when that happens, you may not agree with the politics but it is still part of your duty to follow. There is no room in the military for going against commands, else it would render the organization ineffective. Every country needs a military and whether you think that they are heroes or not, these are still people making a necessary sacrifice. Someone has to do it. Oftentimes, the media likes to only show the wartime aspect of the military, making people think that those who join the military are there because they want to kill. Nothing could be any further from the truth. [0] https://www.businessinsider.com/us-military-deployments-may-2017-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/us-military-deployments-may-...

Recurecur 8y ago

> Why is it considered heroic to go to war without questioning the men sending you there? In the military, it is not your position to question the government. It is your duty to follow orders. > The war in Iraq was pointless and based on dubious logic which turned out to be a lie. It was certainly not "pointless". It was based on the following: - Saddam was a bad actor who hated the US, and would readily provide materiel for use against the US - Iraq was known to have stockpiles of WMD - It was thought possible to transform Iraq from a dictatorship to a democracy that appreciated the US None of those points is in doubt. Aside from a possible nuclear program, Iraq was known to have weaponized anthrax and various chemical agents. Our allies including Britain endorsed the same intelligence. You might remember the celebrations in Baghdad when the US forces arrive and Saddam fled. Or the jubilation Iraqis showed after voting the first time. Time will tell how things work out in the long run, but it's hard to argue that Iraq is worse off today than it was under Saddam Hussein. Has everything worked out perfectly? No, but there have been many sub-optimal moves since the war started, including BO pulling out prematurely and on an announced schedule. Just remember, it's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback...

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
zenbai 8y ago
Woah, I guess you never heard of ISIS
monkeynotes 8y ago
Where to start here. Well, let me preface by saying much of everything we are discussing is hugely influenced by what and individual's principles and beliefs are, I don't expect to change minds, and I accept other people have other opinions, I just want to defend mine. First - it's well known that no WMDs were found in Iraq[1], and with the publication of the Downing Street Memo[2] there is evidence that Bush's presidency went in likely knowing that. Bush just wanted war, with whatever justification he could find. Saddam and his hatred of the US is no justification of war. Plenty of nations rather dislike the US, but you can't just go in and 'make' them like you with guns. As bad as Saddam was, the death toll and utter hell brought upon Iraq's citizens by the invasion to 'bring democracy' is at best as bad as Saddam's regime. Some studies suggest half a million civilian deaths as a result of the war[3]. And let's be honest, Iraq was a huge catalyst for complete chaos in the middle east, which to this day is ongoing. ISIS grew out of the vacuum left by US forces 'liberation' of Iraqi's people. Jesus, what a fucking mess. Seriously, why am I even having to spell this out? Possible nuclear program??!!?! Give me a break. They found corroded, unusable chemical weapons which the UN mostly already knew about. And all that crap was probably best left rotting in Iraq than burning, and harming US forces as they tried to move it. Celebrations in Baghdad? I want to puke. Those poor people sold another lie, they were destined to suffer more. Now, down to following orders. I get that the military only works if everyone follows orders, I really do. However I will not be ordered to murder children for 'the greater cause', be that my country or god. There is a line any man/woman should refuse to cross, in my opinion, and as long as men do not question those who give the orders you cannot claim to have principles. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WMD_conjecture_in_the_aftermath_of_the_2003_invasion_of_Iraq https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WMD_conjecture_in_the_aftermat... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downing_Street_memo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downing_Street_memo [3] https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/15/iraq-death-toll_n_4102855.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/15/iraq-death-toll_n_...