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Android enforces permissions on Google apps too. I don't think that's what this is about. Rather, the AP is interpreting location history as a feature that con

Android enforces permissions on Google apps too. I don't think that's what this is about. Rather, the AP is interpreting location history as a feature that controls all use of geographical location for any purpose across all products. But what it actually refers to is a specific product called literally Location History which lets you see where you've been on a timeline and map. The article does admit half way down that Google says this clearly in popups that appear when you toggle these settings on and off. So the "story" here is, if you want to call it a story, that some AP journalist and a couple of academics believe these warnings are not worded clearly enough. They may well have a point but I'm not sure this rises to the level of news. It'd also be very hard to really eliminate _all_ use of location across all products. Even very basic queries like [buy flowers] needs some rough idea of the user's location to give results that aren't nonsense. Even just opening Google Maps has to request the tiles for your current location, and as those tiles are customised to your prior usage of maps, who you are has to be sent along with the tile query. How do you implement that without Google knowing your rough location? The provider knowing this is rather inherent to the whole concept of digital maps to begin with. So I can't imagine Google offering the sort of setting the AP wants.

frabcus 8y ago
The point is that it doesn't need to record that data. It doesn't give technical details, but the article seems to make it clear that it does record locations. If I just open Google Maps, I don't expect Google to permanently remember my location. I expect them to just serve the right map data anonymously.
- repolfx 8y ago
  And they'll do exactly that if you aren't logged in to an account. The AP story is arguing that you should be able to have a Google account, and have a setting that removes all uses of location data anywhere. Google don't offer that. They do offer anonymous access though. Perhaps the AP should just use that instead.
  - Symbiote 8y ago
    The option to sign out of the Google Maps app is hidden under settings. And anyway, I think many people – especially in Europe – would agree with the AP, that Google shouldn't store location, especially when it's been told not to under a setting described as "Saves where you go with your devices".
babuskov 8y ago
> It'd also be very hard to really eliminate _all_ use of location across all products. I'm sure Google has great programmers. > Even very basic queries like [buy flowers] needs some rough idea of the user's location to give results that aren't nonsense. No, they don't. Back in the days when no tracking was done, I could buy flowers without any problems using [buy flowers location] query myself. Hell, I often use it today, because I'm not at the location anyway and am looking for such things in advance. Having location data is nice improvement, but it isn't a necessity. > Even just opening Google Maps has to request the tiles for your current location It doesn't. I can show me the world map initially until I type in what I want to see. I use it like this all the time and it works great. > How do you implement that without Google knowing your rough location? Let the user type in their address. It's inconvenient, but if people value their privacy more than convenience, let them.
- repolfx 8y ago
  You aren't disagreeing with me. Adding a location manually to a query makes it a different query, but I specifically stated one that doesn't have a location (and yes obviously users make such queries all the time!). But yes, to your wider point, you can progressively delete all location sensitivity from every product and make them annoying and hard to use in the process. And even that wouldn't work. It's a fair bet that if you search for something with a location in the query, whether it be on web search or maps, that this is where you actually are. The reality is nobody cares about this type of privacy feature, especially because Google can't avoid knowing at least your IP address. The AP only cares because it's gone digging for an attack story.
  - babuskov 8y ago
    > Google can't avoid knowing at least your IP address. Knowing it isn't the problem. It's in storing it permanently. When I need location-enabled services I enable location tracking on my hardware (GPS+wifi) and everything just works. Google doesn't need to keep a history of all my locations ever for their services to work properly.
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
titzer 8y ago
> Android enforces permissions on Google apps too. I don't think that's what this is about. Google Play Services is a "location provider" for a device, which means it offers an API to other apps with "enhanced accuracy". It combines a number of different signals, including GPS, WiFi and dead reckoning, to improve location accuracy. To turn it off you either need to switch "Location Mode" to "Device Only" (up to Oreo) or you need to go to the "Google Location Accuracy" menu and turn "High Accuracy" off.

frabcus 8y ago

The point is that it doesn't need to record that data. It doesn't give technical details, but the article seems to make it clear that it does record locations. If I just open Google Maps, I don't expect Google to permanently remember my location. I expect them to just serve the right map data anonymously.

repolfx 8y ago
And they'll do exactly that if you aren't logged in to an account. The AP story is arguing that you should be able to have a Google account, and have a setting that removes all uses of location data anywhere. Google don't offer that. They do offer anonymous access though. Perhaps the AP should just use that instead.
- Symbiote 8y ago
  The option to sign out of the Google Maps app is hidden under settings. And anyway, I think many people – especially in Europe – would agree with the AP, that Google shouldn't store location, especially when it's been told not to under a setting described as "Saves where you go with your devices".

babuskov 8y ago

> It'd also be very hard to really eliminate _all_ use of location across all products. I'm sure Google has great programmers. > Even very basic queries like [buy flowers] needs some rough idea of the user's location to give results that aren't nonsense. No, they don't. Back in the days when no tracking was done, I could buy flowers without any problems using [buy flowers location] query myself. Hell, I often use it today, because I'm not at the location anyway and am looking for such things in advance. Having location data is nice improvement, but it isn't a necessity. > Even just opening Google Maps has to request the tiles for your current location It doesn't. I can show me the world map initially until I type in what I want to see. I use it like this all the time and it works great. > How do you implement that without Google knowing your rough location? Let the user type in their address. It's inconvenient, but if people value their privacy more than convenience, let them.

repolfx 8y ago
You aren't disagreeing with me. Adding a location manually to a query makes it a different query, but I specifically stated one that doesn't have a location (and yes obviously users make such queries all the time!). But yes, to your wider point, you can progressively delete all location sensitivity from every product and make them annoying and hard to use in the process. And even that wouldn't work. It's a fair bet that if you search for something with a location in the query, whether it be on web search or maps, that this is where you actually are. The reality is nobody cares about this type of privacy feature, especially because Google can't avoid knowing at least your IP address. The AP only cares because it's gone digging for an attack story.
- babuskov 8y ago
  > Google can't avoid knowing at least your IP address. Knowing it isn't the problem. It's in storing it permanently. When I need location-enabled services I enable location tracking on my hardware (GPS+wifi) and everything just works. Google doesn't need to keep a history of all my locations ever for their services to work properly.
s73v3r_ 8y ago

titzer 8y ago

> Android enforces permissions on Google apps too. I don't think that's what this is about. Google Play Services is a "location provider" for a device, which means it offers an API to other apps with "enhanced accuracy". It combines a number of different signals, including GPS, WiFi and dead reckoning, to improve location accuracy. To turn it off you either need to switch "Location Mode" to "Device Only" (up to Oreo) or you need to go to the "Google Location Accuracy" menu and turn "High Accuracy" off.