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> I can't remove the Google search box from my home screen for example. You can remove it if you disable "Google Play Services" in Settings -> Apps. Of course

by dmm 8y ago

> I can't remove the Google search box from my home screen for example. You can remove it if you disable "Google Play Services" in Settings -> Apps. Of course if you do then can't use the android store or most apps. I use the alternative fdroid repository and it works fine.

rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago
>I use the alternative fdroid repository and it works fine. F-Droid doesn't have Signal, Whatsapp, Firefox and VLC. No one can seriously expect a normal user to do without Google Play Services (I checked F-Droid every week to, one day, hopefully, turn Google Play Service off. Forever). So 99.9% of Android users are forced to feed Google with all their location data. And the .1% who resists have very little influence on the surveillance state. That's infuriating.
- tadzik_ 8y ago
  > F-Droid doesn't have Signal, Whatsapp, Firefox and VLC. No one can seriously expect a normal user to do without Google Play Services Not sure about the other 3, but I use firefox just fine on my phone without google play services. I use aptoide as my appstore in the absence of google play, and while it does have stuff in there that don't work without GPS anyway (Uber, for instance), it's been a decent replacement for me for quite a while, containing most of the stuff that f-droid doesn't have (because they're not open source) without forcing me to taint my phone with google's crap. No argument on your 2nd point though, it's the unfortunate truth. Which is why it infuriates me a bit when the technical .1% who could actually do it the other way still don't bother and just follow the herd. I know not every hill is worth dying on, but still.
- dmm 8y ago
  > Signal You can sideload signal and it works without google cloud messaging. I use signal every day. It works fine. > Firefox You can sideload Firefox or use Fennec from fdroid, a firefox rebuild without proprietary software. > Whatsapp Yep that probably won't work. Most proprietary android applications use google play framework. This will only get worse. "Android" is less and less free with every release. Google keeps adding functionality to the proprietary libraries on top of the free base. > VLC It used to be in fdroid but is a nightmare to build so it was removed. > No one can seriously expect a normal user to do without Google Play Services Probably. I was just sharing my personal experience. > very little influence on the surveillance state Ha! Most HN readers are enthusiastically building the surveillance state.
  - c4h8o3del 8y ago
    VLC is currently in FDroid, though perhaps there was a time when it had been removed.
    - dmm 8y ago
      Thanks, I was unaware.
    - rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago
      Doesn't seem so. Link?
  - rndmio 8y ago
    https://www.whatsapp.com/android/ https://www.whatsapp.com/android/ Whatsapp distribute the apk directly from their site if you want it, and have done for years. My MiL uses it on a 2013 Nexus7 as she doesn't want a smartphone (even though they say tablets aren't supported)
  - afandian 8y ago
    FWIW, Whatsapp works on my Blackberry OS 10 device, which has an Android compatibility layer. I don't know the details, but I'm fairly sure Google Play Services isn't included.
  - Markoff 8y ago
    i have phone with LOS15.1 without gapps, both Signal and WhatsApp work just fine actually WhatsApp even better without nagging permanent notification like signal (though you can disable and enable it to hide it) i update apps through Yalp store only app i really lost it's Google photos, sharing photos through 1TB Flickr or WhatsApp it's not exactly ideal compared to workflow with Google photos but i @willing to pay this price for not having Google in my life
  - admax88q 8y ago
    > Whatsapp Sideloaded whatsapp works fine. Also F-Droid has Yalp now which lets you download APKs directly from the play store without running play/play services.
- Erlich_Bachman 8y ago
  Just use Yalp Store. You can get all those apps without having Google Services (and without google play service, which is part of Google Services.)
- ForHackernews 8y ago
  You can try https://microg.org/ https://microg.org/ which stubs out or replaces the Play Services with FLOSS alternatives. But I agree that's impractical for the average user.
- acct1771 8y ago
  Same age-old argument as Linux. You're perpetuating their control over you. Sorry to be the messenger.
  - s73v3r_ 8y ago
    Yes, how dare they want to run the applications they have chosen to use.
- sneak 8y ago
  F-Droid is also vulnerable to signing key compromise. All apps in F-Droid are signed by F-Droid keys. Ifwhen those are compromised, you could be backdoored. (Play Store apps are signed by each individual developer’s keys.) Also: That’s not what “forced” means at all.
- Markoff 8y ago
  all those apps you mentioned work just fine on phone without gapps

by dmm 8y ago

rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago

>I use the alternative fdroid repository and it works fine. F-Droid doesn't have Signal, Whatsapp, Firefox and VLC. No one can seriously expect a normal user to do without Google Play Services (I checked F-Droid every week to, one day, hopefully, turn Google Play Service off. Forever). So 99.9% of Android users are forced to feed Google with all their location data. And the .1% who resists have very little influence on the surveillance state. That's infuriating.

tadzik_ 8y ago
> F-Droid doesn't have Signal, Whatsapp, Firefox and VLC. No one can seriously expect a normal user to do without Google Play Services Not sure about the other 3, but I use firefox just fine on my phone without google play services. I use aptoide as my appstore in the absence of google play, and while it does have stuff in there that don't work without GPS anyway (Uber, for instance), it's been a decent replacement for me for quite a while, containing most of the stuff that f-droid doesn't have (because they're not open source) without forcing me to taint my phone with google's crap. No argument on your 2nd point though, it's the unfortunate truth. Which is why it infuriates me a bit when the technical .1% who could actually do it the other way still don't bother and just follow the herd. I know not every hill is worth dying on, but still.
dmm 8y ago
> Signal You can sideload signal and it works without google cloud messaging. I use signal every day. It works fine. > Firefox You can sideload Firefox or use Fennec from fdroid, a firefox rebuild without proprietary software. > Whatsapp Yep that probably won't work. Most proprietary android applications use google play framework. This will only get worse. "Android" is less and less free with every release. Google keeps adding functionality to the proprietary libraries on top of the free base. > VLC It used to be in fdroid but is a nightmare to build so it was removed. > No one can seriously expect a normal user to do without Google Play Services Probably. I was just sharing my personal experience. > very little influence on the surveillance state Ha! Most HN readers are enthusiastically building the surveillance state.
- c4h8o3del 8y ago
  VLC is currently in FDroid, though perhaps there was a time when it had been removed.
  - dmm 8y ago
    Thanks, I was unaware.
  - rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago
    Doesn't seem so. Link?
- rndmio 8y ago
  https://www.whatsapp.com/android/ https://www.whatsapp.com/android/ Whatsapp distribute the apk directly from their site if you want it, and have done for years. My MiL uses it on a 2013 Nexus7 as she doesn't want a smartphone (even though they say tablets aren't supported)
- afandian 8y ago
  FWIW, Whatsapp works on my Blackberry OS 10 device, which has an Android compatibility layer. I don't know the details, but I'm fairly sure Google Play Services isn't included.
- Markoff 8y ago
  i have phone with LOS15.1 without gapps, both Signal and WhatsApp work just fine actually WhatsApp even better without nagging permanent notification like signal (though you can disable and enable it to hide it) i update apps through Yalp store only app i really lost it's Google photos, sharing photos through 1TB Flickr or WhatsApp it's not exactly ideal compared to workflow with Google photos but i @willing to pay this price for not having Google in my life
- admax88q 8y ago
  > Whatsapp Sideloaded whatsapp works fine. Also F-Droid has Yalp now which lets you download APKs directly from the play store without running play/play services.
Erlich_Bachman 8y ago
Just use Yalp Store. You can get all those apps without having Google Services (and without google play service, which is part of Google Services.)
ForHackernews 8y ago
You can try https://microg.org/ https://microg.org/ which stubs out or replaces the Play Services with FLOSS alternatives. But I agree that's impractical for the average user.
acct1771 8y ago
Same age-old argument as Linux. You're perpetuating their control over you. Sorry to be the messenger.
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  Yes, how dare they want to run the applications they have chosen to use.
sneak 8y ago
F-Droid is also vulnerable to signing key compromise. All apps in F-Droid are signed by F-Droid keys. Ifwhen those are compromised, you could be backdoored. (Play Store apps are signed by each individual developer’s keys.) Also: That’s not what “forced” means at all.
Markoff 8y ago
all those apps you mentioned work just fine on phone without gapps