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> Inuit and other Eskimos The not "other" primates. They humans using tech to survive in harsh conditions. > The Neanderthals didn’t either. Hominids [...] T

by cies 8y ago

> Inuit and other Eskimos The not "other" primates. They humans using tech to survive in harsh conditions. > The Neanderthals didn’t either. Hominids [...] They dead! And hard to study as sibling poster shows. Name one wild ape in one location not on HCLF please. I will change my understanding given proper evidence.

dogma1138 8y ago
Nearly all of them would not be on a high carb diet even the herbivore gorilla does not get its energy from carbs: The macronutrient profile of this diet would be as follows: 2.5% energy as fat, 24.3% protein, 15.8% available carbohydrate, with potentially 57.3% of metabolizable energy from short-chain fatty acids (SCFA) derived from colonic fermentation of fiber. Gorillas would therefore obtain considerable energy through fiber fermentation. The largest macro nutrient of nearly all apes boils down to fatty acids just through various different mechanisms. Even the fruits they eat at very different non-domesticated ripen fruit and pith isn’t rich in sugar it’s rich in fatty acids. https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/127/10/2000/4722347 https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/127/10/2000/4722347 No offense but what ever vegan eat like an ape BS you’ve been sold on its categorically wrong. The biggest thing these all “diets” ignore is the actual underlying energy mechanisms which change the macronutrient landscape of the diet completely as different apes and humans have different GI and metabolic paths.
- cies 8y ago
  Mighty interesting article, thanks for sharing. One problem I see is that the tools for counting nutrient intake (cronometer.com in my case) base on the nutrients before fermentation. I have no idea what fermentation happens in my body (I expect nothing close to that of a gorilla, but not sure either). It would still be HCLF by "intake" (while possible/potentially being HFLC by "uptake"). The article makes a suggestion ("potentially"), and does so for one type of gorilla (the foliage eating one). How can you generalize from this to all apes? Just curious.
  - dogma1138 8y ago
    Humans do not have the same metabolic paths as most apes, you cannot break down cellular walls and you don't create nutritionally significant amount of fatty acids in your intestines. The fruits you eat are also rich in fructose since they are domesticated fruits this is in stark opposite to what "fruits" wild apes consume. I'm not generalizing it for all apes because different apes have different diets and different metabolic paths chimps do not ferment cellulose in their colon but they do eat ripen fruit in which the fatty acids develop they also eat fruit which ferments on the ground, they also eat pith all of which is rich in lipids, when you discount the fiber in the chimp diet you will see that it's also nearly 50% lipids even when accounting for plant sources only and not them sucking the skulls of small monkeys for the juicy fatty acids that make up their brains (don't go looking for that, trust me this is something you cannot unsee...). Human physiology is very different than that apes if we go back again to the gorilla then the small intestine and colon ratios are reversed in humans the small intestine is about 50% of the overall digestive tract in gorillas the colon is 50% that is because they get most of their nutrients from secondary fermentation where human physiology is centered nearly exclusively around absorbing available nutrients in the food hence why we also cook food and why eating raw vegan or raw anything is a terrible terrible idea. Saying that our GIs are similar to apes is true but it's like saying that our muscular and skeletal systems are similar but the differences are still night and day. Our bodies are designed to consume ready to use nutrients and more importantly pre-processed nutrients (is suggest reading "Cooking as a biological trait") and to extract as much of them as possible in the shortest time as possible, we don't spend all our day eating and we don't eat 30-40kg of food a day even those of use that weight like a gorilla. Our GI is the gasoline engine while most apes are coal powered steam engines they both still use pistons and consume some form of hydrocarbons but put one in the other and the result will not be pretty.
    - cies 8y ago
      > Our bodies are designed to consume ready to use nutrients and more importantly pre-processed nutrients I find it hard to believe that we are designed to do something that we have later "designed" ourselves. I see cooking as a survival strategy, by which we have grown our habitat by a lot. I look at man as a tropical being, its the only place I can survive without cloths. In the tropics there is also fruits that man can gather/eat without the use of tech. Fruits, leaves, seeds and bugs. Therefor I expect that to be our diets (see bugs there? so not dogmatically vegan here). Also when I put together a diet of said ingredients in cronometer.com it adds up to what we know about RDIs nowadays. I'l have a look at the book you recommended, tnx for that. Much appreciated.
- cies 8y ago
  > as different apes and humans have different GI and metabolic paths. I never said they were the same, I say they are similar. A quote from the article you provided (thanks again for that): "Anatomically, the digestive tracts of humans and great apes are very similar (Stevens and Hume 1995)"
  - dogma1138 8y ago
    They are similar in the same fashion that most organs between apes and humans are similar but they are still very different in how they function and what they were designed to do, same goes for differences between all apes.

by cies 8y ago

dogma1138 8y ago

Nearly all of them would not be on a high carb diet even the herbivore gorilla does not get its energy from carbs: The macronutrient profile of this diet would be as follows: 2.5% energy as fat, 24.3% protein, 15.8% available carbohydrate, with potentially 57.3% of metabolizable energy from short-chain fatty acids (SCFA) derived from colonic fermentation of fiber. Gorillas would therefore obtain considerable energy through fiber fermentation. The largest macro nutrient of nearly all apes boils down to fatty acids just through various different mechanisms. Even the fruits they eat at very different non-domesticated ripen fruit and pith isn’t rich in sugar it’s rich in fatty acids. https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/127/10/2000/4722347 https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/127/10/2000/4722347 No offense but what ever vegan eat like an ape BS you’ve been sold on its categorically wrong. The biggest thing these all “diets” ignore is the actual underlying energy mechanisms which change the macronutrient landscape of the diet completely as different apes and humans have different GI and metabolic paths.

cies 8y ago
Mighty interesting article, thanks for sharing. One problem I see is that the tools for counting nutrient intake (cronometer.com in my case) base on the nutrients before fermentation. I have no idea what fermentation happens in my body (I expect nothing close to that of a gorilla, but not sure either). It would still be HCLF by "intake" (while possible/potentially being HFLC by "uptake"). The article makes a suggestion ("potentially"), and does so for one type of gorilla (the foliage eating one). How can you generalize from this to all apes? Just curious.
- dogma1138 8y ago
  Humans do not have the same metabolic paths as most apes, you cannot break down cellular walls and you don't create nutritionally significant amount of fatty acids in your intestines. The fruits you eat are also rich in fructose since they are domesticated fruits this is in stark opposite to what "fruits" wild apes consume. I'm not generalizing it for all apes because different apes have different diets and different metabolic paths chimps do not ferment cellulose in their colon but they do eat ripen fruit in which the fatty acids develop they also eat fruit which ferments on the ground, they also eat pith all of which is rich in lipids, when you discount the fiber in the chimp diet you will see that it's also nearly 50% lipids even when accounting for plant sources only and not them sucking the skulls of small monkeys for the juicy fatty acids that make up their brains (don't go looking for that, trust me this is something you cannot unsee...). Human physiology is very different than that apes if we go back again to the gorilla then the small intestine and colon ratios are reversed in humans the small intestine is about 50% of the overall digestive tract in gorillas the colon is 50% that is because they get most of their nutrients from secondary fermentation where human physiology is centered nearly exclusively around absorbing available nutrients in the food hence why we also cook food and why eating raw vegan or raw anything is a terrible terrible idea. Saying that our GIs are similar to apes is true but it's like saying that our muscular and skeletal systems are similar but the differences are still night and day. Our bodies are designed to consume ready to use nutrients and more importantly pre-processed nutrients (is suggest reading "Cooking as a biological trait") and to extract as much of them as possible in the shortest time as possible, we don't spend all our day eating and we don't eat 30-40kg of food a day even those of use that weight like a gorilla. Our GI is the gasoline engine while most apes are coal powered steam engines they both still use pistons and consume some form of hydrocarbons but put one in the other and the result will not be pretty.
  - cies 8y ago
    > Our bodies are designed to consume ready to use nutrients and more importantly pre-processed nutrients I find it hard to believe that we are designed to do something that we have later "designed" ourselves. I see cooking as a survival strategy, by which we have grown our habitat by a lot. I look at man as a tropical being, its the only place I can survive without cloths. In the tropics there is also fruits that man can gather/eat without the use of tech. Fruits, leaves, seeds and bugs. Therefor I expect that to be our diets (see bugs there? so not dogmatically vegan here). Also when I put together a diet of said ingredients in cronometer.com it adds up to what we know about RDIs nowadays. I'l have a look at the book you recommended, tnx for that. Much appreciated.
cies 8y ago
> as different apes and humans have different GI and metabolic paths. I never said they were the same, I say they are similar. A quote from the article you provided (thanks again for that): "Anatomically, the digestive tracts of humans and great apes are very similar (Stevens and Hume 1995)"
- dogma1138 8y ago
  They are similar in the same fashion that most organs between apes and humans are similar but they are still very different in how they function and what they were designed to do, same goes for differences between all apes.