4 ms·

For people in Python-world, I've tried many units packages and tend to prefer https://pint.readthedocs.io https://pint.readthedocs.io For the bedroom example s

For people in Python-world, I've tried many units packages and tend to prefer https://pint.readthedocs.io https://pint.readthedocs.io For the bedroom example someone posted, here's the equivalent in pint: import pint # Possibly my least favorite thing about Pint is # the verbose importing/instantiating dance u = pint.UnitRegistry() q = u.quantity() # there are multiple ways of making <Quantity> objects: volume = q('10 feet') * q(10, 'feet') * (10 * u.feet) volume.to('gallons) # How deep could you fill the room? (q('2 tons') / (q('10 feet') * q('12 feet') * u.water/u.gravity)).to('feet') Notes: - Pint has far fewer material property entries in its database (though one can make arbitrary unit registries --- I'm wondering about an importer for the Frink ones... but https://frinklang.org/frinkdata/units.txt https://frinklang.org/frinkdata/units.txt doesn't seem to have a license?) - That said, I'm not wild about Frink's treatment of material properties: Why is the constant `butter` a density, but `eggwhite` a mass, and `naturalgas` a specific energy? - Pint works (mostly) nicely with numpy and can (sometimes) drop into existing code, since <Quantity> objects quack like builtin numbers.

ModernMech 8y ago
> I'm wondering about an importer for the Frink ones... but https://frinklang.org/frinkdata/units.txt https://frinklang.org/frinkdata/units.txt doesn't seem to have a license?) This is just a list of facts, no? You can't really copyright such a thing.
- sllabres 8y ago
  Don't know if this holds water... E.g. a cartographic map: just a "diagram" of facts? Why not ask if there is a license for this file? Edit: And as I see in this thread there is gnu-units (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Units https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Units) probably there is something with a license.
  - jchw 8y ago
    The expression of facts is copyrightable, not the facts though. So importing it is water tight.
  - mmanfrin 8y ago
    A map is not copyrightable. It is just a diagram of facts. Mapmakers protect themselves by inserting fake data which they can then use to claim copyright.
    - duckerude 8y ago
      It looks like it's the other way around: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_street#Legal_issues https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_street#Legal_issues >In Alexandria Drafting Co. v. Andrew H. Amsterdam dba Franklin Maps, the court ruled that "fictitious names may not be copyrighted" and "the existence, or non-existence, of a road is a non-copyrightable fact". Maps are copyrightable (I think?), but the trap streets themselves aren't. They're only there to detect when someone is copying the map.
      - ModernMech 8y ago
        Heh, I actually learned about trap streets when talking to a cartographer who made the muni map of SF you find at all the bus stops (much like this one: http://www.mobilemaplets.com/thumbnails/261_thumbnail-1024.jpg http://www.mobilemaplets.com/thumbnails/261_thumbnail-1024.j...). He told me he added a small alleyway in the map named after his family that doesn't actually exist, and they catch people violating their copyright all the time with it.
jchw 8y ago
As far as I know, facts and information can't be copyrighted, which means at the very least the raw data in units.txt can be used freely with flagrant disregard for licensing.
- gnud 8y ago
  Careful! Collections (databases) of fact can often be copyrighted.
  - kwhitefoot 8y ago
    The artistic expression of the collection is protected not the facts themselves.
    - occamrazor 8y ago
      Depends on the jurisdiction. In the EU databases can be copyrighted under some conditions.
phiresky 8y ago
> I'm wondering about an importer for the Frink ones... but https://frinklang.org/frinkdata/units.txt https://frinklang.org/frinkdata/units.txt doesn't seem to have a license?) That data is almost all taken from GNU Units, including the descriptions, which means it might be under the GPL. Frink itself doesn't seem to be open source at all? I wrote a parser and interpreter [1] for the GNU units descriptions a while ago, you can see the parsed json here [2] (kg! are base unit definitions, "micro_" are prefixes) [1] https://github.com/phiresky/qalc-react https://github.com/phiresky/qalc-react [2] https://github.com/phiresky/qalc-react/blob/master/data/gnu-units.json https://github.com/phiresky/qalc-react/blob/master/data/gnu-...
- dwheeler 8y ago
  As far as I can tell there's no license. No thank you, I don't need a legal headache.
duckerude 8y ago
>https://frinklang.org/frinkdata/units.txt https://frinklang.org/frinkdata/units.txt I haven't even tried the software yet, but that file is a great read. An excerpt (part of a rant about the definition of the candela): // What really annoys me is that the official definitions // don't come right out and say, "okay, we're sorry, this // is obviously a useless definition for any other // wavelength, and it doesn't even make sense for *that* // wavelength. We know. It sucks. The guys at the 16th // CGPM went out and got drunk the night before instead of // working on the definition, and they all sheepishly passed // this in in the morning, and went back to bed. They got // fired later, make no doubt. It's on our list of bugs. // We're sending in the Wolf to fix it directly. // Here is the workaround, but we consider it broken // and we're ashamed to have ever put it forth in this // useless form and left it this way for 30 years. // For now, here is one single draft standard equation to use // for other wavelengths. Download it here. We promise // that the link works and contains a computer-readable // table (though we're too sloppy to actually create a good // smooth polynomial fit that would be a lot cleaner and // easier for everyone) and is not some PDF of a terrible // unreadable old re-scan, stashed away somewhere, making // you wonder if it's valid today, nor is it a ridiculous CIE // document that you have to *pay* a hundred bucks for, when // we could and absolutely need to distribute it for free.
- exikyut 8y ago
  Wow, I completely agree that file is a great read. Also, for reference, the closing " is in the following paragraph, but I'm not quoting it because the 2 paragraphs after that one made opening the link worth my time.

ModernMech 8y ago

sllabres 8y ago
Don't know if this holds water... E.g. a cartographic map: just a "diagram" of facts? Why not ask if there is a license for this file? Edit: And as I see in this thread there is gnu-units (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Units https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Units) probably there is something with a license.
- jchw 8y ago
  The expression of facts is copyrightable, not the facts though. So importing it is water tight.
- mmanfrin 8y ago
  A map is not copyrightable. It is just a diagram of facts. Mapmakers protect themselves by inserting fake data which they can then use to claim copyright.
  - duckerude 8y ago
    It looks like it's the other way around: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_street#Legal_issues https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_street#Legal_issues >In Alexandria Drafting Co. v. Andrew H. Amsterdam dba Franklin Maps, the court ruled that "fictitious names may not be copyrighted" and "the existence, or non-existence, of a road is a non-copyrightable fact". Maps are copyrightable (I think?), but the trap streets themselves aren't. They're only there to detect when someone is copying the map.
    - ModernMech 8y ago
      Heh, I actually learned about trap streets when talking to a cartographer who made the muni map of SF you find at all the bus stops (much like this one: http://www.mobilemaplets.com/thumbnails/261_thumbnail-1024.jpg http://www.mobilemaplets.com/thumbnails/261_thumbnail-1024.j...). He told me he added a small alleyway in the map named after his family that doesn't actually exist, and they catch people violating their copyright all the time with it.

jchw 8y ago

As far as I know, facts and information can't be copyrighted, which means at the very least the raw data in units.txt can be used freely with flagrant disregard for licensing.

gnud 8y ago
Careful! Collections (databases) of fact can often be copyrighted.
- kwhitefoot 8y ago
  The artistic expression of the collection is protected not the facts themselves.
  - occamrazor 8y ago
    Depends on the jurisdiction. In the EU databases can be copyrighted under some conditions.

phiresky 8y ago

> I'm wondering about an importer for the Frink ones... but https://frinklang.org/frinkdata/units.txt https://frinklang.org/frinkdata/units.txt doesn't seem to have a license?) That data is almost all taken from GNU Units, including the descriptions, which means it might be under the GPL. Frink itself doesn't seem to be open source at all? I wrote a parser and interpreter [1] for the GNU units descriptions a while ago, you can see the parsed json here [2] (kg! are base unit definitions, "micro_" are prefixes) [1] https://github.com/phiresky/qalc-react https://github.com/phiresky/qalc-react [2] https://github.com/phiresky/qalc-react/blob/master/data/gnu-units.json https://github.com/phiresky/qalc-react/blob/master/data/gnu-...

dwheeler 8y ago
As far as I can tell there's no license. No thank you, I don't need a legal headache.

duckerude 8y ago

>https://frinklang.org/frinkdata/units.txt https://frinklang.org/frinkdata/units.txt I haven't even tried the software yet, but that file is a great read. An excerpt (part of a rant about the definition of the candela): // What really annoys me is that the official definitions // don't come right out and say, "okay, we're sorry, this // is obviously a useless definition for any other // wavelength, and it doesn't even make sense for *that* // wavelength. We know. It sucks. The guys at the 16th // CGPM went out and got drunk the night before instead of // working on the definition, and they all sheepishly passed // this in in the morning, and went back to bed. They got // fired later, make no doubt. It's on our list of bugs. // We're sending in the Wolf to fix it directly. // Here is the workaround, but we consider it broken // and we're ashamed to have ever put it forth in this // useless form and left it this way for 30 years. // For now, here is one single draft standard equation to use // for other wavelengths. Download it here. We promise // that the link works and contains a computer-readable // table (though we're too sloppy to actually create a good // smooth polynomial fit that would be a lot cleaner and // easier for everyone) and is not some PDF of a terrible // unreadable old re-scan, stashed away somewhere, making // you wonder if it's valid today, nor is it a ridiculous CIE // document that you have to *pay* a hundred bucks for, when // we could and absolutely need to distribute it for free.

exikyut 8y ago
Wow, I completely agree that file is a great read. Also, for reference, the closing " is in the following paragraph, but I'm not quoting it because the 2 paragraphs after that one made opening the link worth my time.