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All primates eat high carb. They are not fat. It is fat that blocks insulin on yr cells. No (or little) fat and you can absorb your carbs as nature intended.

by cies 8y ago

All primates eat high carb. They are not fat. It is fat that blocks insulin on yr cells. No (or little) fat and you can absorb your carbs as nature intended. > Fats are not inherently bad for you, doesn’t matter if they are plant based or not. I agree. It is the refined fats that are bad.

dogma1138 8y ago
It’s not really not true, apes have very different diets e.g. Gorillas are folivore and mostly consume leaves they can actually digest cellulose (they ferment it which is why they have a huge belly as their colon is huge), while chimps are omnivores that actually eat meat and hunt colobus monkeys, as well as consume eggs, insects, birds, nuts and honey. Also the human genetic and epigenetic landscape is utterly different just like the difference between any other species. And you also ignore our gut flora which is drastically different than apes in the wild (you would also not find apes with the same flora ofc, Gorillas and Chimps would have drastically different floras). But sure eat like a gorilla around 50-60 I don’t remember if it’s lbs or kg of leaves a day but at those figures it doesn’t matter and see how long would you survive. (just in case someone somehow would take that jest seriously, please don't eat like a Gorilla you will die, and if not you will suffer irreversible damage to your colon to the point where you quite possible wish you were dead)
- cies 8y ago
  https://seaworld.org/animal-info/animal-infobooks/gorilla/diet-and-eating-habits/ https://seaworld.org/animal-info/animal-infobooks/gorilla/di... I read "Western lowland gorilla (Gorilla gorilla gorilla): This subspecies consumes parts of at least 97 plant species. About 67% of their diet is fruit, 17% is leaves, seeds and stems and 3% is termites and caterpillars." Another type of gorilla eats more/mostly leafs. Still gorilla eat HCLF. I'm not saying eat only leafs. I'm saying other primates eat fruit-leaves-bugs mostly (yes some chimps hunt, but given enough fruit they are not so much compelled to). And we have a quite similar GI tract. Not the same, but much more similar than comparing to cats or cows. We are not made for processed food. We are made for HCLF. We are quite similar to other primates GI-tract wise. What do you not agree with?
  - dogma1138 8y ago
    Nice that you cherry pick a quote, I also suggest that you check which fruits they eat hint it’s not what you would consider fruit or be able to digest. We do not have a similar GI tract to other primates we have a GI tract simmilar to some primates Gorillas have a closer GI tract to hippos than to humans. Even the lowland gorilla which it eats “fruit” would say not eat a banana, in fact they destroy banana trees as they eat the leaves and the stem rather than the fruits. Gorillas can digest about 70% of the plant cell wall material they consume they are one of the most efficient herbivores on the planet in this regard the fruits they eat at rich in cellulose not sugar or starch. And while cellulose is carb the fermentation process turns it into fatty acids. What little ripen fruit they eat seem to involve around maintaining fermentation not as a source of energy.
xzel 8y ago
This is just plain categorically wrong. All primates DO NOT eat high carb diets. Its not both just an over generalization because each species of primate have different diets (as well as regional diets) but many of them will eat nuts, meat, berries and other things. See dogma1138's child post to this parent as well as his other responses to cies other posts in this thread. No offense cies but your posts here reek of soccer-mom-esque health blog level of basic research and espousing of ideas as facts.
- dogma1138 8y ago
  In case anyone is interested, Comparative Digestive Physiology: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4458075/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4458075/
- cies 8y ago
  > but many of them will eat nuts, meat, berries and other things. Eating some "nuts, meat" does not make it HFLC. Do you know what consitutes HCLF? Well name me one type of primate that does not eat HCLF in the wild and you may correct me. But so far you have not. > No offense cies but your posts here reek of soccer-mom-esque health blog level of basic research and espousing of ideas as facts. No offense taken. We're just discussing here. Please provide evidence for your claim there is a not-HCLF (thus HFLC) type of ape in some location. I will fix my beliefs with proper evidence (I just could not find it).
  - xzel 8y ago
    What? You said generally this is what is true; generally, it is not true. That is all I'm saying. You're generalization is wrong on a factual level. Continuing, dogma1138 has done plenty to discuss differences between human and primate digestion and primate diets. I'm not interested in reading back-alley nutritionist blogs to discover what HCLF is (that is basically all that came up on google, Vegan or LDS sites). You want to link to a research paper discussing it I'm happy to hear about it.
barry-cotter 8y ago
The Inuit and other Eskimos ate basically nothing but meat and fat in their traditional lifestyle. Not all primates eat high carb. The Neanderthals didn’t either. Hominids have been eating diets high in meat and fat for a really long time.
- dogma1138 8y ago
  I would be very careful about assuming too much about neanderthal diets recent studies show that they cooked and boiled food even made chamomile tea and based on recent tooth plaque analysis had a diet which was fairly rich in plant based food sources. http://www.pnas.org/content/108/2/486.full http://www.pnas.org/content/108/2/486.full
- cies 8y ago
  > Inuit and other Eskimos The not "other" primates. They humans using tech to survive in harsh conditions. > The Neanderthals didn’t either. Hominids [...] They dead! And hard to study as sibling poster shows. Name one wild ape in one location not on HCLF please. I will change my understanding given proper evidence.
  - dogma1138 8y ago
    Nearly all of them would not be on a high carb diet even the herbivore gorilla does not get its energy from carbs: The macronutrient profile of this diet would be as follows: 2.5% energy as fat, 24.3% protein, 15.8% available carbohydrate, with potentially 57.3% of metabolizable energy from short-chain fatty acids (SCFA) derived from colonic fermentation of fiber. Gorillas would therefore obtain considerable energy through fiber fermentation. The largest macro nutrient of nearly all apes boils down to fatty acids just through various different mechanisms. Even the fruits they eat at very different non-domesticated ripen fruit and pith isn’t rich in sugar it’s rich in fatty acids. https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/127/10/2000/4722347 https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/127/10/2000/4722347 No offense but what ever vegan eat like an ape BS you’ve been sold on its categorically wrong. The biggest thing these all “diets” ignore is the actual underlying energy mechanisms which change the macronutrient landscape of the diet completely as different apes and humans have different GI and metabolic paths.

by cies 8y ago

dogma1138 8y ago

It’s not really not true, apes have very different diets e.g. Gorillas are folivore and mostly consume leaves they can actually digest cellulose (they ferment it which is why they have a huge belly as their colon is huge), while chimps are omnivores that actually eat meat and hunt colobus monkeys, as well as consume eggs, insects, birds, nuts and honey. Also the human genetic and epigenetic landscape is utterly different just like the difference between any other species. And you also ignore our gut flora which is drastically different than apes in the wild (you would also not find apes with the same flora ofc, Gorillas and Chimps would have drastically different floras). But sure eat like a gorilla around 50-60 I don’t remember if it’s lbs or kg of leaves a day but at those figures it doesn’t matter and see how long would you survive. (just in case someone somehow would take that jest seriously, please don't eat like a Gorilla you will die, and if not you will suffer irreversible damage to your colon to the point where you quite possible wish you were dead)

cies 8y ago
https://seaworld.org/animal-info/animal-infobooks/gorilla/diet-and-eating-habits/ https://seaworld.org/animal-info/animal-infobooks/gorilla/di... I read "Western lowland gorilla (Gorilla gorilla gorilla): This subspecies consumes parts of at least 97 plant species. About 67% of their diet is fruit, 17% is leaves, seeds and stems and 3% is termites and caterpillars." Another type of gorilla eats more/mostly leafs. Still gorilla eat HCLF. I'm not saying eat only leafs. I'm saying other primates eat fruit-leaves-bugs mostly (yes some chimps hunt, but given enough fruit they are not so much compelled to). And we have a quite similar GI tract. Not the same, but much more similar than comparing to cats or cows. We are not made for processed food. We are made for HCLF. We are quite similar to other primates GI-tract wise. What do you not agree with?
- dogma1138 8y ago
  Nice that you cherry pick a quote, I also suggest that you check which fruits they eat hint it’s not what you would consider fruit or be able to digest. We do not have a similar GI tract to other primates we have a GI tract simmilar to some primates Gorillas have a closer GI tract to hippos than to humans. Even the lowland gorilla which it eats “fruit” would say not eat a banana, in fact they destroy banana trees as they eat the leaves and the stem rather than the fruits. Gorillas can digest about 70% of the plant cell wall material they consume they are one of the most efficient herbivores on the planet in this regard the fruits they eat at rich in cellulose not sugar or starch. And while cellulose is carb the fermentation process turns it into fatty acids. What little ripen fruit they eat seem to involve around maintaining fermentation not as a source of energy.

xzel 8y ago

This is just plain categorically wrong. All primates DO NOT eat high carb diets. Its not both just an over generalization because each species of primate have different diets (as well as regional diets) but many of them will eat nuts, meat, berries and other things. See dogma1138's child post to this parent as well as his other responses to cies other posts in this thread. No offense cies but your posts here reek of soccer-mom-esque health blog level of basic research and espousing of ideas as facts.

dogma1138 8y ago
In case anyone is interested, Comparative Digestive Physiology: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4458075/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4458075/
cies 8y ago
> but many of them will eat nuts, meat, berries and other things. Eating some "nuts, meat" does not make it HFLC. Do you know what consitutes HCLF? Well name me one type of primate that does not eat HCLF in the wild and you may correct me. But so far you have not. > No offense cies but your posts here reek of soccer-mom-esque health blog level of basic research and espousing of ideas as facts. No offense taken. We're just discussing here. Please provide evidence for your claim there is a not-HCLF (thus HFLC) type of ape in some location. I will fix my beliefs with proper evidence (I just could not find it).
- xzel 8y ago
  What? You said generally this is what is true; generally, it is not true. That is all I'm saying. You're generalization is wrong on a factual level. Continuing, dogma1138 has done plenty to discuss differences between human and primate digestion and primate diets. I'm not interested in reading back-alley nutritionist blogs to discover what HCLF is (that is basically all that came up on google, Vegan or LDS sites). You want to link to a research paper discussing it I'm happy to hear about it.

barry-cotter 8y ago

The Inuit and other Eskimos ate basically nothing but meat and fat in their traditional lifestyle. Not all primates eat high carb. The Neanderthals didn’t either. Hominids have been eating diets high in meat and fat for a really long time.

dogma1138 8y ago
I would be very careful about assuming too much about neanderthal diets recent studies show that they cooked and boiled food even made chamomile tea and based on recent tooth plaque analysis had a diet which was fairly rich in plant based food sources. http://www.pnas.org/content/108/2/486.full http://www.pnas.org/content/108/2/486.full
cies 8y ago
> Inuit and other Eskimos The not "other" primates. They humans using tech to survive in harsh conditions. > The Neanderthals didn’t either. Hominids [...] They dead! And hard to study as sibling poster shows. Name one wild ape in one location not on HCLF please. I will change my understanding given proper evidence.
- dogma1138 8y ago
  Nearly all of them would not be on a high carb diet even the herbivore gorilla does not get its energy from carbs: The macronutrient profile of this diet would be as follows: 2.5% energy as fat, 24.3% protein, 15.8% available carbohydrate, with potentially 57.3% of metabolizable energy from short-chain fatty acids (SCFA) derived from colonic fermentation of fiber. Gorillas would therefore obtain considerable energy through fiber fermentation. The largest macro nutrient of nearly all apes boils down to fatty acids just through various different mechanisms. Even the fruits they eat at very different non-domesticated ripen fruit and pith isn’t rich in sugar it’s rich in fatty acids. https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/127/10/2000/4722347 https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/127/10/2000/4722347 No offense but what ever vegan eat like an ape BS you’ve been sold on its categorically wrong. The biggest thing these all “diets” ignore is the actual underlying energy mechanisms which change the macronutrient landscape of the diet completely as different apes and humans have different GI and metabolic paths.