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I thought koenigsegg was already doing this with their freevalve thing Also I saw an interesting point in an article about the koenigsegg thing that would pert

I thought koenigsegg was already doing this with their freevalve thing Also I saw an interesting point in an article about the koenigsegg thing that would pertain to this too; environmental laws would be much harder to practically enforce with this as you could run virtually any engine anemic enough to get though the emissions tests (and set it as the default mode to get around the Volkswagen nonsense) and then offer high/sport/cruise modes that runs the engine at full capacity otherwise

thinkingkong 8y ago
Wouldnt the test just need to apply to all modes? If its a matter of automatically tuning through a series of conditions then its reasonable that those could be documented and tested by the facility / standards body.
- yontherubicon 8y ago
  Sure, but emissions testing after you've got the car would be utterly useless.
  - inferiorhuman 8y ago
    How so? Roadside emissions testing is very much a thing, as are annual emissions checks.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 8y ago
      Not in all states. I haven't had to do it in 20 years.
  - londons_explore 8y ago
    The solution to this is to mandate that the car have built in emissions modelling. The car itself must keep track of how much Nox it has produced and how many miles it's driven. The ratio must stay below some legal limit (or you pay an extra pollution tax to go over it)
- londons_explore 8y ago
  Efficiency testing of appliances (eg. Dishwashers) only tests the default mode. That's why all dishwashers have a mode which takes 4 hours and does a lousy job. It's the mode that only uses 3 drips of water and a sip of electricity.
  - photojosh 8y ago
    Do you have a link to any resource which talks about what the best way to use it? Everything easily searched seems to be how to get your dishwasher to run at its most efficient. I've never had a problem with our one with it's 2.5hr eco mode, when running overnight (which is 90% of our loads). If we need a quick load during the day, we'll use the 40min cycle. Either way the wash quality seems the same.
    - londons_explore 8y ago
      I'm sure it varies widely by machine. Ours when on eco mode doesn't really dry the dishes (drying uses heat which uses electricity!), and only does one rinse to save water so dishes still have a bit of grime on them, especially if lots of the plates have thick gravy or anything on. I would put eco mode as 'passable', but you have to remember to scrape off the plates well beforehand, rince especially gungy stuff (like porridge), and to probably do a bit of hand drying of items afterwards. One the other hand, the 'intensive' mode only uses 50% more electricity, takes a quarter of the time, leaves the plates clean and dry every time, and uses a hotter wash temperature which I suspect is better at killing pathogens, and doesn't need any pre-rinsing or plate scraping beforehand. It's a no-brainer in my mind.
justinclift 8y ago
After market engine modding would be interesting too.
TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
> environmental laws would be much harder to practically enforce ... and then offer high/sport/cruise modes that runs the engine at full capacity otherwise Only if your company is ready to willfully break the law. The vehicle ought to, at the time of testing, meet or exceed all relevant standards, and not have a user accessible option to circumvent the standards.
- tibbon 8y ago
  Well there’s a car hacking then for a future Defcon tuning panel then... because if I buy it, I want to be able to hack and modify it in any way I want. As long as I’m not violating emissions, then it should be within the law Thankfully, automakers have quite and uphill battle to actually make something secure and inaccessible, so I feel confident a solution would be found :)
  - Pulcinella 8y ago
    This does happen now in car culture where people will tune it “chip[1]” their car to increase performance. In practice, it’s difficult enough (you can’t just do it through the car’s infotainment system) that your average driver won’t do it and it’s probably not to big of an empact on the environment[2] and people’s health[3]. [1]”Chipping” used to enclose physically replacing a car’s ECU but now it usually just means the control software has been chnaged digitally. [2]Unfortunately, some awful people will and do “roll coal” to purposefully increase emissions and smoke. It’s illegal in many places but difficult to enforce. [3]Your car still has to pass emissions and sometimes people do bring the ECU back to stock firmware before annual inspections just to pass. Difficult to enforce but tuning usually sacrifices fuel economy for performance and its not simple to do. Most people who just want a grocery-getter won’t be trying it.
inferiorhuman 8y ago
> environmental laws would be much harder to practically enforce with this as you could run virtually any engine anemic enough to get though the emissions tests lol Changing a cam (or cams) in most engines isn't all that difficult. Even without a camshaft you'll still be heavily limited by the shape and size of the combustion chamber and the geometry of the valves. You simply won't be neutering the engine that much.
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
  Changing a camshaft in a classic car is huge pain that requires specialist equipment for setting the timing etc. and getting it wrong can destroy the engine. It's more than possible in a home setting but most home mechanics I know wouldn't touch them. I'm sure it's a lot more complicated on a modern car.
  - inferiorhuman 8y ago
    > Changing a camshaft in a classic car is huge pain that requires specialist equipment for setting the timing etc. and getting it wrong can destroy the engine. That's overstating the case quite a bit. There are plenty of engines where you don't need special tools. > I'm sure it's a lot more complicated on a modern car. Wait. You were talking about older engines? Then, no. You're absolutely wrong. Swapping out cams on most older engines is a piece of cake. Pretty much anything without variable valve timing will be super duper easy. Pushrod motors are especially easy. There are some exceptions, of course, like the DeLorean's V6 (the cams slide out of the head so you generally won't have room to pull them out without pulling the head).
nounaut 8y ago
For those of you interested in seeing some more details on Koenigsegg's work with their freevalve engine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bch5B23_pu0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bch5B23_pu0 (2013) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3cFfM3r510 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3cFfM3r510 (2016)

thinkingkong 8y ago

Wouldnt the test just need to apply to all modes? If its a matter of automatically tuning through a series of conditions then its reasonable that those could be documented and tested by the facility / standards body.

yontherubicon 8y ago
Sure, but emissions testing after you've got the car would be utterly useless.
- inferiorhuman 8y ago
  How so? Roadside emissions testing is very much a thing, as are annual emissions checks.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 8y ago
    Not in all states. I haven't had to do it in 20 years.
- londons_explore 8y ago
  The solution to this is to mandate that the car have built in emissions modelling. The car itself must keep track of how much Nox it has produced and how many miles it's driven. The ratio must stay below some legal limit (or you pay an extra pollution tax to go over it)
londons_explore 8y ago
Efficiency testing of appliances (eg. Dishwashers) only tests the default mode. That's why all dishwashers have a mode which takes 4 hours and does a lousy job. It's the mode that only uses 3 drips of water and a sip of electricity.
- photojosh 8y ago
  Do you have a link to any resource which talks about what the best way to use it? Everything easily searched seems to be how to get your dishwasher to run at its most efficient. I've never had a problem with our one with it's 2.5hr eco mode, when running overnight (which is 90% of our loads). If we need a quick load during the day, we'll use the 40min cycle. Either way the wash quality seems the same.
  - londons_explore 8y ago
    I'm sure it varies widely by machine. Ours when on eco mode doesn't really dry the dishes (drying uses heat which uses electricity!), and only does one rinse to save water so dishes still have a bit of grime on them, especially if lots of the plates have thick gravy or anything on. I would put eco mode as 'passable', but you have to remember to scrape off the plates well beforehand, rince especially gungy stuff (like porridge), and to probably do a bit of hand drying of items afterwards. One the other hand, the 'intensive' mode only uses 50% more electricity, takes a quarter of the time, leaves the plates clean and dry every time, and uses a hotter wash temperature which I suspect is better at killing pathogens, and doesn't need any pre-rinsing or plate scraping beforehand. It's a no-brainer in my mind.

justinclift 8y ago

After market engine modding would be interesting too.

TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago

> environmental laws would be much harder to practically enforce ... and then offer high/sport/cruise modes that runs the engine at full capacity otherwise Only if your company is ready to willfully break the law. The vehicle ought to, at the time of testing, meet or exceed all relevant standards, and not have a user accessible option to circumvent the standards.

tibbon 8y ago
Well there’s a car hacking then for a future Defcon tuning panel then... because if I buy it, I want to be able to hack and modify it in any way I want. As long as I’m not violating emissions, then it should be within the law Thankfully, automakers have quite and uphill battle to actually make something secure and inaccessible, so I feel confident a solution would be found :)
- Pulcinella 8y ago
  This does happen now in car culture where people will tune it “chip[1]” their car to increase performance. In practice, it’s difficult enough (you can’t just do it through the car’s infotainment system) that your average driver won’t do it and it’s probably not to big of an empact on the environment[2] and people’s health[3]. [1]”Chipping” used to enclose physically replacing a car’s ECU but now it usually just means the control software has been chnaged digitally. [2]Unfortunately, some awful people will and do “roll coal” to purposefully increase emissions and smoke. It’s illegal in many places but difficult to enforce. [3]Your car still has to pass emissions and sometimes people do bring the ECU back to stock firmware before annual inspections just to pass. Difficult to enforce but tuning usually sacrifices fuel economy for performance and its not simple to do. Most people who just want a grocery-getter won’t be trying it.

inferiorhuman 8y ago

> environmental laws would be much harder to practically enforce with this as you could run virtually any engine anemic enough to get though the emissions tests lol Changing a cam (or cams) in most engines isn't all that difficult. Even without a camshaft you'll still be heavily limited by the shape and size of the combustion chamber and the geometry of the valves. You simply won't be neutering the engine that much.

SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
Changing a camshaft in a classic car is huge pain that requires specialist equipment for setting the timing etc. and getting it wrong can destroy the engine. It's more than possible in a home setting but most home mechanics I know wouldn't touch them. I'm sure it's a lot more complicated on a modern car.
- inferiorhuman 8y ago
  > Changing a camshaft in a classic car is huge pain that requires specialist equipment for setting the timing etc. and getting it wrong can destroy the engine. That's overstating the case quite a bit. There are plenty of engines where you don't need special tools. > I'm sure it's a lot more complicated on a modern car. Wait. You were talking about older engines? Then, no. You're absolutely wrong. Swapping out cams on most older engines is a piece of cake. Pretty much anything without variable valve timing will be super duper easy. Pushrod motors are especially easy. There are some exceptions, of course, like the DeLorean's V6 (the cams slide out of the head so you generally won't have room to pull them out without pulling the head).

nounaut 8y ago

For those of you interested in seeing some more details on Koenigsegg's work with their freevalve engine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bch5B23_pu0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bch5B23_pu0 (2013) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3cFfM3r510 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3cFfM3r510 (2016)