4 ms·

Is it really that competitive these days after uni when you have "no experience" and are a junior dev? I assume you have a top 10% GPA? I always hear in the b

Is it really that competitive these days after uni when you have "no experience" and are a junior dev? I assume you have a top 10% GPA? I always hear in the bay area you get $150,000 straight out of uni, at least when you're from Stanford etc. Is this not the case anymore? Edit: Ok, I see you're in France. Then 33k€ is rather reasonable. There don't really exist exciting software companies in France or Germany, except maybe blockchain companies.

Rjevski 8y ago
In Europe not really. US is a different league I believe, one I can't comment on.
codingdave 8y ago
> I assume you have a top 10% GPA? Why would you assume something that is, by definition, not true for 90% of the population?
ebbv 8y ago
In the US a lot of companies just don’t have the bandwidth to hire someone straight out of university. A degree is great but 10 out of 10 times I would rather have someone with four years of experience doing the work we are doing than someone with a four year degree and no work experience. It’s sad but it’s the truth. We aren’t a big enough team to spare the time and effort it takes to teach a recent graduate everything they are gonna have to learn in their first couple years. A lot of which is just about what being a developer is day to day.
- clanreborn 8y ago
  It depends on where you hire from. Guys from top universities usually have enough experience to get started instantly, straight out of university.
throwAwayXYZ69 8y ago
I was indeed in the top 10% of my school. Even a smaller percentile I guess since I was on the top 2 or 3 people in my class. But unless the job is in Paris (which is extremely expensive) I havent found anything starting close to 40k€
- williamdclt 8y ago
  What school did you go to, if you're comfortable sharing?
  - throwAwayXYZ69 8y ago
    Not really comfortable giving a name but its one of the top 10 engineering schools in the country (France).
- conradk 8y ago
  You might want to look at remote work, if that's something you're comfortable with. You can get paid well (think "Paris-salary") and live in more economical areas. Happy to talk more if you're interested.
- nicoburns 8y ago
  In the UK my experience has been that graduate developer salaries aren't that great, but can double for someone woth as little as 1-2 years experience post university.
  - user5994461 8y ago
    French who moved to London here. Yes, that's what happens in London however that's not what happens in France. Expect zero increase for the next many years, even if changing company.
    - tribesman 8y ago
      I am from Netherlands and i moved to London. It seems people here in other European countries do not work hard due to welfare state. It used to be so difficult working with my unmotivated European collegues and the quality of average employee is wayy worse, no wonder the salaries are depressed as companies can't seem to get ROI. But in London there are people much more talented and prepared do anything. The talent quality is wayy better than what i found in other European countries.
williamdclt 8y ago
> There don't really exist exciting software companies in France or Germany, except maybe blockchain companies. That's pretty pedantic and narrow-minded. People are excited by wildly different things (and a for a lot of them, not particularly by blockchain), and France/Germany have a lot of things going on tech-wise,
user5994461 8y ago
French here. 33k is fairly decent in Paris, with no degree and no experience. Outside of Paris, it's really good. It's above the average for a top degree in a top school.
- zerr 8y ago
  Do you mean an average gross income in general or for senior devs particularly?
  - user5994461 8y ago
    For new graduates or little experience. One thing to note, education is free in France and the norm is to get a master. You won't get an interview anywhere without a master.
- throwAwayXYZ69 8y ago
  I really can't see how someone would live with 33k in Paris (before taxes). According to you what is a good salaries grid ?

Rjevski 8y ago

In Europe not really. US is a different league I believe, one I can't comment on.

codingdave 8y ago

> I assume you have a top 10% GPA? Why would you assume something that is, by definition, not true for 90% of the population?

ebbv 8y ago

In the US a lot of companies just don’t have the bandwidth to hire someone straight out of university. A degree is great but 10 out of 10 times I would rather have someone with four years of experience doing the work we are doing than someone with a four year degree and no work experience. It’s sad but it’s the truth. We aren’t a big enough team to spare the time and effort it takes to teach a recent graduate everything they are gonna have to learn in their first couple years. A lot of which is just about what being a developer is day to day.

clanreborn 8y ago
It depends on where you hire from. Guys from top universities usually have enough experience to get started instantly, straight out of university.

throwAwayXYZ69 8y ago

I was indeed in the top 10% of my school. Even a smaller percentile I guess since I was on the top 2 or 3 people in my class. But unless the job is in Paris (which is extremely expensive) I havent found anything starting close to 40k€

williamdclt 8y ago
What school did you go to, if you're comfortable sharing?
- throwAwayXYZ69 8y ago
  Not really comfortable giving a name but its one of the top 10 engineering schools in the country (France).
conradk 8y ago
You might want to look at remote work, if that's something you're comfortable with. You can get paid well (think "Paris-salary") and live in more economical areas. Happy to talk more if you're interested.
nicoburns 8y ago
In the UK my experience has been that graduate developer salaries aren't that great, but can double for someone woth as little as 1-2 years experience post university.
- user5994461 8y ago
  French who moved to London here. Yes, that's what happens in London however that's not what happens in France. Expect zero increase for the next many years, even if changing company.
  - tribesman 8y ago
    I am from Netherlands and i moved to London. It seems people here in other European countries do not work hard due to welfare state. It used to be so difficult working with my unmotivated European collegues and the quality of average employee is wayy worse, no wonder the salaries are depressed as companies can't seem to get ROI. But in London there are people much more talented and prepared do anything. The talent quality is wayy better than what i found in other European countries.

williamdclt 8y ago

> There don't really exist exciting software companies in France or Germany, except maybe blockchain companies. That's pretty pedantic and narrow-minded. People are excited by wildly different things (and a for a lot of them, not particularly by blockchain), and France/Germany have a lot of things going on tech-wise,

user5994461 8y ago

French here. 33k is fairly decent in Paris, with no degree and no experience. Outside of Paris, it's really good. It's above the average for a top degree in a top school.

zerr 8y ago
Do you mean an average gross income in general or for senior devs particularly?
- user5994461 8y ago
  For new graduates or little experience. One thing to note, education is free in France and the norm is to get a master. You won't get an interview anywhere without a master.
throwAwayXYZ69 8y ago
I really can't see how someone would live with 33k in Paris (before taxes). According to you what is a good salaries grid ?