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Intel’s 9th generation processors rumored to launch October 1st with 8 cores

32 points by sahin-boydas 8y ago

ianai 8y ago
Is there a chance that we never see a traditional 10 nm Intel processor? I wonder whether they could embrace whatever problems they’re having through instead of trying to model strictly 1s and 0s including intermediate states.
- bhouston 8y ago
  Define traditional. I think Intel has to follow AMD's many CCX per CPU approach, especially after Intel hired Jim Keller who ran the Zen program at AMD. If they have started the many CCX program before hiring Jim Keller I would have hope it could come out in 2019, otherwise I think it would be 2020 at the earliest. Thus the "traditional Intel processors" will likely have time to launch on 10mn before then. 10mn must be ready at some time right?
  - mbell 8y ago
    > I think Intel has to follow AMD's many CCX per CPU approach, especially after Intel hired Jim Keller who ran the Zen program at AMD. AMD's approach as a lot of downsides, I think AMD only went that way due to yield issues and trying to cut down on the number of designs they are fabing for cost cutting.
  - wmf 8y ago
    Intel is working on chiplets connected by EMIB, but it's not clear whether they would be cheaper than a monolithic die. Intel's ring and mesh interconnects with shared L3 cache have far better performance than AMD's CCX+crossbar arrangement so there's no reason for them to go backwards.
- mikhailt 8y ago
  No, we will definitely see a 10nm Intel CPU and 7nm and 5nm. That's a sure thing, the problem isn't that they can't do it, they can and they already have developed some 10nm wafers a few years ago; they just can't scale the yield production to meet the yearly supply. So, while they keep working on 10nm yield issues, they're refining the current fabs in order to keep the sales going. 7nm fab is already in development: https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20170208005977/en/Intel-Supports-American-Innovation-7-Billion-Investment https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20170208005977/en/Int... We just can't expect them to shrink at the same pace they had a decade ago, it was easier to drop from 130nm to 14nm but from now on, it becomes incredibly difficult to shrink without new technologies. Quantum computing is a few decades away from being feasible for consumer use.
ocdtrekkie 8y ago
The question for me isn't the nm size. It's "are the hardware fixes for Meltdown/Spectre in there?
- quotemstr 8y ago
  Right. Obviating the grotesque hacks (cough retpoline) needed to work around the recent speculative execution problems would yield more performance "improvement" than some incremental process bump.
CommanderData 8y ago
Is this in response to competition? I wonder where we would be without it.
- bhouston 8y ago
  With 4 cores (8 with HT) like we were for the last 8 years - argh: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i7_microprocessors#Nehalem_microarchitecture_(1st_generation) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i7_micropro...
bhouston 8y ago
Is the 9th generation Intel Core CPUs just a rebranding of the existing 9th generation with a few more cores? There is no process improvement, no architect improvement, just more cores? I notice that the integrated GPU is the same one that I have in the 8750H, the Intel Graphics 620 UHD. If this is the case, these chips then are going to be hot, power hungry and probably thermally throttled. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_Lake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_Lake
- mbell 8y ago
  They use a refined 14nm process, 14+++. > If this is the case, these chips then are going to be hot, power hungry and probably thermally throttled. Coffeelake isn't particularly power hungry, nor does it run particularly hot, nor does it have issues with thermal throttling.
  - bhouston 8y ago
    My Dell XPS 9670 with uses a Coffee Lake Intel Core i7 8570H throttles down by >50% after one minutes if I try to use all 12HT cores.
    - mbell 8y ago
      >50% of what? The base clock of that CPU is only 2.2ghz, it'll use ~45W at 2.2ghz which is what it's rated at. If the cooling in your laptop can't support that, it's a problem with the laptop, not the processor. Also these are desktop processors, the 8700k doesn't have any notable power / thermal issues. The only way I can get the one in my desktop up to it's rated TDP is overclocking it a bit and hitting it with prime95 AVX.
  - chrisper 8y ago
    I have the 8700k and you can barley overclock it without it running too hot.
    - dogma1138 8y ago
quotemstr 8y ago
And Spectre architectural fixes, one hopes
- rasz 8y ago
  haha, no. That would deserve big headlines.

32 points by sahin-boydas 8y ago

Is there a chance that we never see a traditional 10 nm Intel processor? I wonder whether they could embrace whatever problems they’re having through instead of trying to model strictly 1s and 0s including intermediate states.

bhouston 8y ago
Define traditional. I think Intel has to follow AMD's many CCX per CPU approach, especially after Intel hired Jim Keller who ran the Zen program at AMD. If they have started the many CCX program before hiring Jim Keller I would have hope it could come out in 2019, otherwise I think it would be 2020 at the earliest. Thus the "traditional Intel processors" will likely have time to launch on 10mn before then. 10mn must be ready at some time right?
- mbell 8y ago
  > I think Intel has to follow AMD's many CCX per CPU approach, especially after Intel hired Jim Keller who ran the Zen program at AMD. AMD's approach as a lot of downsides, I think AMD only went that way due to yield issues and trying to cut down on the number of designs they are fabing for cost cutting.
- wmf 8y ago
  Intel is working on chiplets connected by EMIB, but it's not clear whether they would be cheaper than a monolithic die. Intel's ring and mesh interconnects with shared L3 cache have far better performance than AMD's CCX+crossbar arrangement so there's no reason for them to go backwards.
mikhailt 8y ago
No, we will definitely see a 10nm Intel CPU and 7nm and 5nm. That's a sure thing, the problem isn't that they can't do it, they can and they already have developed some 10nm wafers a few years ago; they just can't scale the yield production to meet the yearly supply. So, while they keep working on 10nm yield issues, they're refining the current fabs in order to keep the sales going. 7nm fab is already in development: https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20170208005977/en/Intel-Supports-American-Innovation-7-Billion-Investment https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20170208005977/en/Int... We just can't expect them to shrink at the same pace they had a decade ago, it was easier to drop from 130nm to 14nm but from now on, it becomes incredibly difficult to shrink without new technologies. Quantum computing is a few decades away from being feasible for consumer use.

ocdtrekkie 8y ago

The question for me isn't the nm size. It's "are the hardware fixes for Meltdown/Spectre in there?

quotemstr 8y ago
Right. Obviating the grotesque hacks (cough retpoline) needed to work around the recent speculative execution problems would yield more performance "improvement" than some incremental process bump.

CommanderData 8y ago

Is this in response to competition? I wonder where we would be without it.

bhouston 8y ago
With 4 cores (8 with HT) like we were for the last 8 years - argh: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i7_microprocessors#Nehalem_microarchitecture_(1st_generation) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i7_micropro...

bhouston 8y ago

Is the 9th generation Intel Core CPUs just a rebranding of the existing 9th generation with a few more cores? There is no process improvement, no architect improvement, just more cores? I notice that the integrated GPU is the same one that I have in the 8750H, the Intel Graphics 620 UHD. If this is the case, these chips then are going to be hot, power hungry and probably thermally throttled. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_Lake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_Lake

mbell 8y ago
They use a refined 14nm process, 14+++. > If this is the case, these chips then are going to be hot, power hungry and probably thermally throttled. Coffeelake isn't particularly power hungry, nor does it run particularly hot, nor does it have issues with thermal throttling.
- bhouston 8y ago
  My Dell XPS 9670 with uses a Coffee Lake Intel Core i7 8570H throttles down by >50% after one minutes if I try to use all 12HT cores.
  - mbell 8y ago
    >50% of what? The base clock of that CPU is only 2.2ghz, it'll use ~45W at 2.2ghz which is what it's rated at. If the cooling in your laptop can't support that, it's a problem with the laptop, not the processor. Also these are desktop processors, the 8700k doesn't have any notable power / thermal issues. The only way I can get the one in my desktop up to it's rated TDP is overclocking it a bit and hitting it with prime95 AVX.
- chrisper 8y ago
  I have the 8700k and you can barley overclock it without it running too hot.
  - dogma1138 8y ago

quotemstr 8y ago

And Spectre architectural fixes, one hopes

rasz 8y ago
haha, no. That would deserve big headlines.