5 ms·

Related to IBM PC keyboards Unicomp modern versions of the IBM Model M keyboard built iwth the same tooling that made the originals. When living in a flat shar

by acd 8y ago

Related to IBM PC keyboards Unicomp modern versions of the IBM Model M keyboard built iwth the same tooling that made the originals. When living in a flat share I had access to a IBM Model M keyboard the one made for the PS/2 computer. This is one of the best keyboards I have ever used they are built like tanks. Unicomp keyboards https://www.pckeyboard.com/ https://www.pckeyboard.com/

perl4ever 8y ago
I tried a "buckling spring" keyboard (I think from Unicomp) that was supposed to be the equivalent of one of those IBMs and I was severely disappointed in the electronics. It could not handle multiple keys properly the way a real one would. Basically they had focused completely on the selling point of the springs and neglected to make a usable product. (I did have a real PS/2 Model M previously, so all I really wanted was a USB equivalent)
- throwaway2048 8y ago
  The USB HID standard has a limit of 4 keys pressed at once, unless you do fuckery like virtual USB hubs with additional virtual keyboards (which will cause some things to misbehave) there is no way around this restriction without custom drivers (which are also a nightmare).
  - ddingus 8y ago
    TIL By chance, do you know the limits on real PS/2?
    - userbinator 8y ago
      Effectively none --- the keyboard only sends "key X is pressed" and "key X is released" messages. On the other hand, the key matrix design can impose its own limits.
      - ddingus 8y ago
        Cool, thanks.
      - deaddodo 8y ago
        To expound on that: The matrix in most PS/2 keyboards only supports two-key rollover (reliable detection of two keys pressed at once). In the case of three+ keys there is a chance for missed presses and other artifacts.
        ddingus 8y ago
        Thanks as well.
  - rasz 8y ago
    No, the basic mode has a limit, and most keyboards keep using it due to (lack of) legacy bios support.
  - JdeBP 8y ago
    This has been debunked several times over the years at Hacker News. The standard imposes no such limit; additional HIDs are not required in order to exceed that number of keys; and properly written ordinary HID drivers can handle what is necessary, as it is an ordinary part of the specification to describe the size of the input report and an ordinary part of a driver's operation to decode and process an input report descriptor in order to know how to decode an input report. * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8191260 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8191260 * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7358911 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7358911 * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8478042 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8478042
JohnStrangeII 8y ago
I've used a Unicomp "Spacesaver" for many years and have been very happy with it. Recently I've switched to a ten-key-less keyboard with blue Cherry switches in order to have more space on the desk, and I've got to say that I much prefer the snappy feel of Cherry switches.
- LukeShu 8y ago
  I've always been bothered that Unicomp uses the term "Spacesaver" for their keyboard with less trim; traditionally, a Model M Spacesaver refers to a ten-key-less. The big difference in the feel between buckling spring and MX blues is that buckling spring has a tactile drop where the force suddenly drops off right at the actuation point[1][2], where blues have a tactile bump where the force spikes up right before the actuation point[3][4]. I'm not sure what it's called, but the blues also have a temporary drop-off in pressure in the middle of the return stroke. Which is better is a matter of personal preference. There's no substitute for actually trying a switch, but actual force/displacement graphs will do a much better job of telling you what a switch feels like than subjective words like "snappy" or "smooth" or "mushy". https://input.club/the-problem-with-mechanical-switch-reviews/ https://input.club/the-problem-with-mechanical-switch-review... [1]: Model M measured: https://input.club/the-comparative-guide-to-mechanical-switches/tactile-clicky/ibm-buckling-spring-membrane/ https://input.club/the-comparative-guide-to-mechanical-switc... [2]: Model M nominal: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Fig_2_harris_keyforce-o.svg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Fig_2_ha... [3]: MX blue measured: https://input.club/the-comparative-guide-to-mechanical-switches/tactile-clicky/cherry-mx-blue/ https://input.club/the-comparative-guide-to-mechanical-switc... [4]: MX blue nominal: http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/media/guide/graph-mx-blue.jpg http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/media/guide/graph-mx-blue.jpg
AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
Built like a tank is right, the thing weighs nearly 5lbs. You could beat a man to death with a model M and still use it afterwards.

by acd 8y ago

perl4ever 8y ago

I tried a "buckling spring" keyboard (I think from Unicomp) that was supposed to be the equivalent of one of those IBMs and I was severely disappointed in the electronics. It could not handle multiple keys properly the way a real one would. Basically they had focused completely on the selling point of the springs and neglected to make a usable product. (I did have a real PS/2 Model M previously, so all I really wanted was a USB equivalent)

throwaway2048 8y ago
The USB HID standard has a limit of 4 keys pressed at once, unless you do fuckery like virtual USB hubs with additional virtual keyboards (which will cause some things to misbehave) there is no way around this restriction without custom drivers (which are also a nightmare).
- ddingus 8y ago
  TIL By chance, do you know the limits on real PS/2?
  - userbinator 8y ago
    Effectively none --- the keyboard only sends "key X is pressed" and "key X is released" messages. On the other hand, the key matrix design can impose its own limits.
    - ddingus 8y ago
      Cool, thanks.
    - deaddodo 8y ago
      To expound on that: The matrix in most PS/2 keyboards only supports two-key rollover (reliable detection of two keys pressed at once). In the case of three+ keys there is a chance for missed presses and other artifacts.
      - ddingus 8y ago
        Thanks as well.
- rasz 8y ago
  No, the basic mode has a limit, and most keyboards keep using it due to (lack of) legacy bios support.
- JdeBP 8y ago
  This has been debunked several times over the years at Hacker News. The standard imposes no such limit; additional HIDs are not required in order to exceed that number of keys; and properly written ordinary HID drivers can handle what is necessary, as it is an ordinary part of the specification to describe the size of the input report and an ordinary part of a driver's operation to decode and process an input report descriptor in order to know how to decode an input report. * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8191260 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8191260 * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7358911 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7358911 * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8478042 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8478042

JohnStrangeII 8y ago

I've used a Unicomp "Spacesaver" for many years and have been very happy with it. Recently I've switched to a ten-key-less keyboard with blue Cherry switches in order to have more space on the desk, and I've got to say that I much prefer the snappy feel of Cherry switches.

LukeShu 8y ago
I've always been bothered that Unicomp uses the term "Spacesaver" for their keyboard with less trim; traditionally, a Model M Spacesaver refers to a ten-key-less. The big difference in the feel between buckling spring and MX blues is that buckling spring has a tactile drop where the force suddenly drops off right at the actuation point[1][2], where blues have a tactile bump where the force spikes up right before the actuation point[3][4]. I'm not sure what it's called, but the blues also have a temporary drop-off in pressure in the middle of the return stroke. Which is better is a matter of personal preference. There's no substitute for actually trying a switch, but actual force/displacement graphs will do a much better job of telling you what a switch feels like than subjective words like "snappy" or "smooth" or "mushy". https://input.club/the-problem-with-mechanical-switch-reviews/ https://input.club/the-problem-with-mechanical-switch-review... [1]: Model M measured: https://input.club/the-comparative-guide-to-mechanical-switches/tactile-clicky/ibm-buckling-spring-membrane/ https://input.club/the-comparative-guide-to-mechanical-switc... [2]: Model M nominal: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Fig_2_harris_keyforce-o.svg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Fig_2_ha... [3]: MX blue measured: https://input.club/the-comparative-guide-to-mechanical-switches/tactile-clicky/cherry-mx-blue/ https://input.club/the-comparative-guide-to-mechanical-switc... [4]: MX blue nominal: http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/media/guide/graph-mx-blue.jpg http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/media/guide/graph-mx-blue.jpg

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago

Built like a tank is right, the thing weighs nearly 5lbs. You could beat a man to death with a model M and still use it afterwards.