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> I dunno, I normally have a thick skin and a good sense of humor, but having been raised jewish its hard for me to look at cuddly hitler and not cringe a litt

> I dunno, I normally have a thick skin and a good sense of humor, but having been raised jewish its hard for me to look at cuddly hitler and not cringe a little Maybe you should grow a thicker skin? The British Empire was arguably more evil than the German Reich (and did evil for quite a few centuries). Yet the Union Jack is displayed everywhere (even on shirts) and the same hateful institutions are still there (e.g. the royal family).

philwelch 16y ago
I get into the same arguments with kids wearing Che shirts. It's not worth it. Being evil is one thing, being evil and losing a war against us makes you the villain forever.
- deleted 16y ago
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- rwhitman 16y ago
  I'm sure people would be equally offended as I am if the app had cutesy pictures of Pol Pot, or Stalin or any other brutal dictator known for mass genocide
whyleyc 16y ago
That's a pretty big claim to throw out there. What evidence do you have to support it ?
- Untitled 16y ago
  Read up about the British Empire and its history (it really is no secret). Examples include favouring certain classes in Sri Lanka (creating strife that lasted to this day in Sri Lanka and Malaysia). Overseeing immense famine (while British landowners exported food) in India and Ireland. Putting (and killing) people in concentration camps (e.g. South Africa and Kenia). Letting certain businessmen (e.g. Cecil John Rhodes) basically own countries (with all the abuse and rape that this entails). Did you learn in history books that the British Empire was a divine and enlightened entity that existed for the benefit of mankind? (Because it basically enslaved 400 million people for the benefit of an Island of less than 40 million).
  - whyleyc 16y ago
    I agree that the examples you give are terrible and inexcusable, however they don't support your assertion that the British Empire was more evil than the Third Reich, given what we know about the sheer scale of systematic extermination during the Holocaust. It just doesn't compare I'm afraid. Also, the British Empire, whilst causing harm, did bring benefits to some countries (something it would be hard to argue the Third Reich did). For instance: * Infrastructure improvements (railways, roads, canals, industrialisation) * Improvements in education * Parliamentary democracy * A professional civil service * Free trade * Medicine (hospitals, vaccinations) .. and of course cricket :)
    - Jach 16y ago
      Sounds like you're saying the British Empire was more similar to the Romans than to the Third Reich. I don't necessarily disagree, since I consider myself ignorant on large swathes of history to make a confident judgment, but doing a little searching brings up a couple numbers. The Holocaust killed ~15 million (which includes non-Jews too). In the late 19th century, the British Empire was directly responsible for ~30 million deaths from starving people in India. ( http://archive.arabnews.com/?page=7&section=0&article=84138&d=21&m=6&y=2006 http://archive.arabnews.com/?page=7&section=0&articl... ) The Empire did a lot of good things, but do you think their good outweighs their bad over 250 years? I think it's part of human psychology to say a short, painful event (like the Holocaust) is worse than a prolonged, perhaps even more painful event ( http://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_kahneman_the_riddle_of_experience_vs_memory.html http://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_kahneman_the_riddle_of_exper... ), especially if the ending is a peak or decay (Nazis were still evil in the end, British Empire hasn't been very "empirical" after WW2).
      - philwelch 16y ago
        The Third Reich killed 15 million people within barely over a decade, plus a few more dozen million in the wars it started, with virtually no redeeming characteristics. The British empire killed more people than that, yes, but over the course of centuries and with enough redeeming characteristics that they likely saved tens of millions of lives as well, by enriching their empire through infrastructure improvement, free trade, and good government. It's quite notable that of all the countries Britain supposedly oppressed in their empire, many of them freely choose to remain part of the Commonwealth today. If you judge any regime by the worst thing it's done, every regime is evil.
rwhitman 16y ago
So because the british committed atrocities through policy decisions over the course of several centuries, I shouldn't be offended by cuddly representations of hitler - a man that presided over the slaughter of several generations of both my jewish and non-jewish extended family? Is that what you're saying?

philwelch 16y ago

I get into the same arguments with kids wearing Che shirts. It's not worth it. Being evil is one thing, being evil and losing a war against us makes you the villain forever.

deleted 16y ago
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rwhitman 16y ago
I'm sure people would be equally offended as I am if the app had cutesy pictures of Pol Pot, or Stalin or any other brutal dictator known for mass genocide

whyleyc 16y ago

That's a pretty big claim to throw out there. What evidence do you have to support it ?

Untitled 16y ago
Read up about the British Empire and its history (it really is no secret). Examples include favouring certain classes in Sri Lanka (creating strife that lasted to this day in Sri Lanka and Malaysia). Overseeing immense famine (while British landowners exported food) in India and Ireland. Putting (and killing) people in concentration camps (e.g. South Africa and Kenia). Letting certain businessmen (e.g. Cecil John Rhodes) basically own countries (with all the abuse and rape that this entails). Did you learn in history books that the British Empire was a divine and enlightened entity that existed for the benefit of mankind? (Because it basically enslaved 400 million people for the benefit of an Island of less than 40 million).
- whyleyc 16y ago
  I agree that the examples you give are terrible and inexcusable, however they don't support your assertion that the British Empire was more evil than the Third Reich, given what we know about the sheer scale of systematic extermination during the Holocaust. It just doesn't compare I'm afraid. Also, the British Empire, whilst causing harm, did bring benefits to some countries (something it would be hard to argue the Third Reich did). For instance: * Infrastructure improvements (railways, roads, canals, industrialisation) * Improvements in education * Parliamentary democracy * A professional civil service * Free trade * Medicine (hospitals, vaccinations) .. and of course cricket :)
  - Jach 16y ago
    Sounds like you're saying the British Empire was more similar to the Romans than to the Third Reich. I don't necessarily disagree, since I consider myself ignorant on large swathes of history to make a confident judgment, but doing a little searching brings up a couple numbers. The Holocaust killed ~15 million (which includes non-Jews too). In the late 19th century, the British Empire was directly responsible for ~30 million deaths from starving people in India. ( http://archive.arabnews.com/?page=7&section=0&article=84138&d=21&m=6&y=2006 http://archive.arabnews.com/?page=7&section=0&articl... ) The Empire did a lot of good things, but do you think their good outweighs their bad over 250 years? I think it's part of human psychology to say a short, painful event (like the Holocaust) is worse than a prolonged, perhaps even more painful event ( http://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_kahneman_the_riddle_of_experience_vs_memory.html http://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_kahneman_the_riddle_of_exper... ), especially if the ending is a peak or decay (Nazis were still evil in the end, British Empire hasn't been very "empirical" after WW2).
    - philwelch 16y ago
      The Third Reich killed 15 million people within barely over a decade, plus a few more dozen million in the wars it started, with virtually no redeeming characteristics. The British empire killed more people than that, yes, but over the course of centuries and with enough redeeming characteristics that they likely saved tens of millions of lives as well, by enriching their empire through infrastructure improvement, free trade, and good government. It's quite notable that of all the countries Britain supposedly oppressed in their empire, many of them freely choose to remain part of the Commonwealth today. If you judge any regime by the worst thing it's done, every regime is evil.

rwhitman 16y ago

So because the british committed atrocities through policy decisions over the course of several centuries, I shouldn't be offended by cuddly representations of hitler - a man that presided over the slaughter of several generations of both my jewish and non-jewish extended family? Is that what you're saying?