5 ms·

The really poor in the US don't tend to have ID. They often can't afford to take the time off work to go through the process of obtaining it, especially if they

by wl 8y ago

The really poor in the US don't tend to have ID. They often can't afford to take the time off work to go through the process of obtaining it, especially if they don't drive. Additionally, it's an extra expense some people can't afford. Also, voter fraud isn't much of an issue in the US, so it's a solution to a problem we don't really have. Sometimes I wish those crying voter suppression would amend voter ID proposals to make getting ID free and easy and just put this whole issue to bed. Unfortunately with REAL ID, things are only going to get more difficult and expensive.

zapita 8y ago
> it's a solution to a problem we don't really have I would add that it's also used to deflect (or in some cases shout down) discussions of mass voter disenfranchisement, which actually exists and undermines US democracy in a meaningful way. Try bringing up gerrymandering, voter purging, shortening of early voting and holiday/week-end voting, selective use of overwhelming police presence with a US reactionary and count the seconds before they make voter ID the center of the conversation.
ghaff 8y ago
Someone I know was complaining recently about getting the first driver's license for their kid. Apparently, the state was looking for proof of residence like utility bills that the kid obviously didn't have. Presumably it was all eventually resolved but it took a couple of trips and many hours--and this was for someone of a demographic one wouldn't expect to have any issues.
ApolloFortyNine 8y ago
The "can't take time off work" excuse doesn't work either, since you need valid ID to work. One that says your a citizen, and one with your picture (or just your passport, since it's both). https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/employee-rights-book/chapter16-3.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/employee-...
- wool_gather 8y ago
  That list of documents is not the same as those that are acceptable for voting.
  - ApolloFortyNine 8y ago
    Exactly, it's more strict.... I apologize if I didn't spell that out. To work in this country you need to provide more identification then you need to vote. At the very least, I think it should be equivalent. In reality, I think at the very least a government issued photo ID is required. We're talking about the integrity of an election after all.
- mrsteveman1 8y ago
  Voter registration cards are on the identification document list in that link, they don't have pictures on them. Either way the requirements to vote are currently less strict in many places than the requirements to get a photo ID that can then meet the requirements of voter ID laws. That, all by itself, means it will affect some percentage of the voters in an area, and that means it can easily affect the outcome of an election, at the very least for a period of time that may span multiple election cycles. And that is the real reason voter ID laws are constantly being proposed. Constantly re-arguing the theoretical neutrality and easy availability of ID (which is generally neither free or easily available, in some cases deliberately) ignores the practical effect of voter ID laws, and the motivations of those pushing for voter ID laws.
  - ApolloFortyNine 8y ago
    >Constantly re-arguing the theoretical neutrality and easy availability of ID (which is generally neither free or easily available, in some cases deliberately) ignores the practical effect of voter ID laws, and the motivations of those pushing for voter ID laws. I'm not sure why we wouldn't want to guarantee the integrity of our elections. That's what this whole thread is about after all. Voter ID is just one key component of that.
golemiprague 8y ago
How do you know voter fraud isn't much of an issue if people got no id? how do you check it even? I could probably go there as a tourist and vote, no?

by wl 8y ago

zapita 8y ago

> it's a solution to a problem we don't really have I would add that it's also used to deflect (or in some cases shout down) discussions of mass voter disenfranchisement, which actually exists and undermines US democracy in a meaningful way. Try bringing up gerrymandering, voter purging, shortening of early voting and holiday/week-end voting, selective use of overwhelming police presence with a US reactionary and count the seconds before they make voter ID the center of the conversation.

ghaff 8y ago

Someone I know was complaining recently about getting the first driver's license for their kid. Apparently, the state was looking for proof of residence like utility bills that the kid obviously didn't have. Presumably it was all eventually resolved but it took a couple of trips and many hours--and this was for someone of a demographic one wouldn't expect to have any issues.

ApolloFortyNine 8y ago

The "can't take time off work" excuse doesn't work either, since you need valid ID to work. One that says your a citizen, and one with your picture (or just your passport, since it's both). https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/employee-rights-book/chapter16-3.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/employee-...

wool_gather 8y ago
That list of documents is not the same as those that are acceptable for voting.
- ApolloFortyNine 8y ago
  Exactly, it's more strict.... I apologize if I didn't spell that out. To work in this country you need to provide more identification then you need to vote. At the very least, I think it should be equivalent. In reality, I think at the very least a government issued photo ID is required. We're talking about the integrity of an election after all.
mrsteveman1 8y ago
Voter registration cards are on the identification document list in that link, they don't have pictures on them. Either way the requirements to vote are currently less strict in many places than the requirements to get a photo ID that can then meet the requirements of voter ID laws. That, all by itself, means it will affect some percentage of the voters in an area, and that means it can easily affect the outcome of an election, at the very least for a period of time that may span multiple election cycles. And that is the real reason voter ID laws are constantly being proposed. Constantly re-arguing the theoretical neutrality and easy availability of ID (which is generally neither free or easily available, in some cases deliberately) ignores the practical effect of voter ID laws, and the motivations of those pushing for voter ID laws.
- ApolloFortyNine 8y ago
  >Constantly re-arguing the theoretical neutrality and easy availability of ID (which is generally neither free or easily available, in some cases deliberately) ignores the practical effect of voter ID laws, and the motivations of those pushing for voter ID laws. I'm not sure why we wouldn't want to guarantee the integrity of our elections. That's what this whole thread is about after all. Voter ID is just one key component of that.

golemiprague 8y ago

How do you know voter fraud isn't much of an issue if people got no id? how do you check it even? I could probably go there as a tourist and vote, no?