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Best case interpretation from my vantage point: bigotry of low expectations. Apparently some people believe that poor people or minorities in America find it ha

Best case interpretation from my vantage point: bigotry of low expectations. Apparently some people believe that poor people or minorities in America find it harder than even the poorest Indians to go get identification.

fareesh 8y ago
I am from India, which is why I find this especially confusing - hence my motivation for asking
brewrwe 8y ago
Aadhaar isn't a beacon of hope, the reason the poorest Indians are getting Aadhaar at all is to survive as the government of India forces it down people's throats, denying their benefits and even existence as real people if they don't have Aadhaar. Lets not even touch the attempts at demonetization as of late, these policies haven't created a stable environment in India. https://m.rediff.com/news/column/the-giant-mess-called-aadhaar/20180116.htm https://m.rediff.com/news/column/the-giant-mess-called-aadha...
- UncleEntity 8y ago
  The poorest people in the US also need ID cards to just survive too, try to get any sort of government benefits without being able to prove who you are.
  - brewrwe 8y ago
    Generally you can get by without photo ID, your Social Security card is much more important to have wrt benefits and employment.
spuz 8y ago
It's not bigotry if the numbers prove it out. Almost every politician who wants voter IDs is a Republican and almost every politician who opposes IDs is a Democrat. If it would have no effect on voter behaviour you would not expect such a clean divide of opinion amongst party members.
pgeorgi 8y ago
That interpretation only works if the infrastructure to obtain ID in India and the US is of somewhat similar quality. Given America's love-hate relationship with well-maintained infrastructure ("my tax money may end up benefitting somebody else?!?"), and given how ID is optional for most aspects of American live, it wouldn't surprise me if India's system is significantly better organized (although people will certainly find enough to complain about, as always).
- rohit2412 8y ago
  You clearly have no idea what bureaucracy in third world countries is like
  - pgeorgi 8y ago
    Even if the process is onerous having one is miles ahead for the purpose of identifying eligible voters compared to the American system which barely knows who exists within the country, much less where they live.
    - rohit2412 8y ago
      Isn't this reasoning cyclic? You can't have an id in USA because the current system doesn't have a list of people with their addresses? So the current system needs to be a system of all the people and their addresses, including citizens, with some sort of unique identifier for quick retrieval? You know, an id?
      - pgeorgi 8y ago
        It's cyclic, yes, but only because we went off on a tangent. The US isn't prepared for that because they refuse to have a registry of their citizens. India has one (or two, currently). Therefore "infrastructure to obtain ID in India and the US is of somewhat similar quality" is false. Therefore "Apparently some people believe that poor people or minorities in America find it harder than even the poorest Indians to go get identification" is a false equivalence: The poorest of all Indians still have a government that keeps track of the data required to vote (whatever fault it may have in other ways). Americans do not and therefore have to work around the no-registration policy with an ad-hoc registration procedure every two years that might require significant hoop-jumping - which is easier when you have some extraneous time and/or money you can throw at the problem (that is, you're not poor).

fareesh 8y ago

I am from India, which is why I find this especially confusing - hence my motivation for asking

brewrwe 8y ago

Aadhaar isn't a beacon of hope, the reason the poorest Indians are getting Aadhaar at all is to survive as the government of India forces it down people's throats, denying their benefits and even existence as real people if they don't have Aadhaar. Lets not even touch the attempts at demonetization as of late, these policies haven't created a stable environment in India. https://m.rediff.com/news/column/the-giant-mess-called-aadhaar/20180116.htm https://m.rediff.com/news/column/the-giant-mess-called-aadha...

UncleEntity 8y ago
The poorest people in the US also need ID cards to just survive too, try to get any sort of government benefits without being able to prove who you are.
- brewrwe 8y ago
  Generally you can get by without photo ID, your Social Security card is much more important to have wrt benefits and employment.

spuz 8y ago

It's not bigotry if the numbers prove it out. Almost every politician who wants voter IDs is a Republican and almost every politician who opposes IDs is a Democrat. If it would have no effect on voter behaviour you would not expect such a clean divide of opinion amongst party members.

pgeorgi 8y ago

That interpretation only works if the infrastructure to obtain ID in India and the US is of somewhat similar quality. Given America's love-hate relationship with well-maintained infrastructure ("my tax money may end up benefitting somebody else?!?"), and given how ID is optional for most aspects of American live, it wouldn't surprise me if India's system is significantly better organized (although people will certainly find enough to complain about, as always).

rohit2412 8y ago
You clearly have no idea what bureaucracy in third world countries is like
- pgeorgi 8y ago
  Even if the process is onerous having one is miles ahead for the purpose of identifying eligible voters compared to the American system which barely knows who exists within the country, much less where they live.
  - rohit2412 8y ago
    Isn't this reasoning cyclic? You can't have an id in USA because the current system doesn't have a list of people with their addresses? So the current system needs to be a system of all the people and their addresses, including citizens, with some sort of unique identifier for quick retrieval? You know, an id?
    - pgeorgi 8y ago
      It's cyclic, yes, but only because we went off on a tangent. The US isn't prepared for that because they refuse to have a registry of their citizens. India has one (or two, currently). Therefore "infrastructure to obtain ID in India and the US is of somewhat similar quality" is false. Therefore "Apparently some people believe that poor people or minorities in America find it harder than even the poorest Indians to go get identification" is a false equivalence: The poorest of all Indians still have a government that keeps track of the data required to vote (whatever fault it may have in other ways). Americans do not and therefore have to work around the no-registration policy with an ad-hoc registration procedure every two years that might require significant hoop-jumping - which is easier when you have some extraneous time and/or money you can throw at the problem (that is, you're not poor).