4 ms·

The amount outright toxic comments and toxic people posting in this thread is astounding. Seriously, boys, grow up and join the professional world. Disgusting.

coldtea 8y ago
Well, not everyone shares the anglosaxon culture of puritan shame about sex and that it's outrageous to discuss outside the bedroom. So a lot of stuff in the post is not about going outside some professional limit (e.g. few would have been offended if they played with nerf guns in the office, like tons of startups do and most are alright with -- but which a lot of cultures would deem "unprofessional" as well, since it inherently has nothing to do with work). Though this does go beyond limits: And the harassment escalated, she alleged. In December, English called her into his office, shut the door and took off his pants, she claimed. Moore said she was uncomfortable, told him his behavior was “harassment,” and asked to leave the room, but English “would not let her” and began talking about his ex-girlfriend’s faults, she claimed. as it's not mere talk (which can be crude, sensual, or whatever), but actual abuse: nobody asked to see his genitals...
- blubb-fish 8y ago
  I wouldn't be "offended" by others playing with nerf guns but certainly annoyed ... but I would be offended if others would involve me in this pretty infantile and sub-radar-bullying pastime. who do you think is going to get shot at on a regular basis? but of course it's just fun - right? and no - repetitive exposure to sexualized remarks without positive feedback is sexual harassment. and I am saying that as a European guy who is slightly infamous for very direct and obvious flirting - even at work. but as soon as I get a rejection - even a polite one - I'm going to just accept it and move on. guys like you make work life a terrible experience for others by forcing your idea of fun on them. you should hope to never meet a guy like me b/c that's not going to be a fun experience for you in the end.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >I wouldn't be "offended" by others playing with nerf guns but certainly annoyed ... but I would be offended if others would involve me in this pretty infantile and sub-radar-bullying pastime. who do you think is going to get shot at on a regular basis? Everybody and nobody in particular? >and I am saying that as a European guy who is slightly infamous for very direct and obvious flirting - even at work. but as soon as I get a rejection - even a polite one - I'm going to just accept it and move on. Well, you could have been fired multiple times in the US just for this, so there's that. Have you checked out this "very direct and obvious flirting" against more HR departments? Or because that's where you draw the line you're OK, but anything else suggested by other people is bad (like e.g. complimenting someone on their looks, or telling a "dirty" joke among colleagues). >guys like you make work life a terrible experience for others by forcing your idea of fun on them "Like me"? I guess you felt free to infer that since I'm giving an argument against puritanically singling out sexual expression from various spheres of life I must be some pervert. Which is like believing that no vegan should ever argue in favor of others being able to eat meat... >you should hope to never meet a guy like me b/c that's not going to be a fun experience for you in the end Oh, and physical threats. Yeah, because sexual talk between colleagues is bad, but violence is fine. Typical anglosaxon puritanism (even if from a European), the kind that pushes all sorts of violence on tv, but goes into moral outrage about Janet Jackson's nip slip...
    - blubb-fish 8y ago
      > and physical threats that you interprete that as a physical threat tells more about you than me. I'm certainly not getting physical against anybody at work or pretty much anywhere else ... I'm talking about standing up against bullying by verbal or legal means.
      - coldtea 8y ago
        >that you interprete that as a physical threat Yeah, because "you should hope to never meet a guy like me b/c that's not going to be a fun experience for you in the end" is so open to various interpretations, right? I guess the "tells more about you than me" part is also not an attempt at cheap pop psychology ad hominem either, I just interpreted it as such....
- colemickens 8y ago
  As I was saying to your other gross, now deleted comment... Context matters. I can talk with my friend, in great detail, about sex. Outside of work. At work, it's inappropriate for the same reasons that talking about religion or politics can be. It will alienate people and make them uncomfortable. But when that extends to have masturbation rooms at work, or your superiors bragging about how great they are at sex (lol), then it crosses a line. A pretty obvious line, to me. Even without the boss undressing. How do you not see that allowing the former sets the culture and leads to the latter? there are power dynamics inherent to the workplace and sex that are undeniable and unignorable if you care about an equal, respectful workplace. No one anywhere has said "sex is dirty" and it strikes me as a pretty flagrant straw man.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >I can talk with my friend, in great detail, about sex. Outside of work. At work, it's inappropriate for the same reasons that talking about religion or politics can be. It will alienate people and make them uncomfortable. In some cultures (e.g. Southern Mediterranean), people are not alienated by talking about "religion or politics" at work either. In fact people do so frequently. See, not everybody shares the cultural constrains of your own culture...
    - colemickens 8y ago
      Thanks for ignoring the entire point of my post to nitpick a single part of a sentence to advance your same point without addressing what I said. I think I'm done with this thread. Enough toxicity for one day.

coldtea 8y ago

Well, not everyone shares the anglosaxon culture of puritan shame about sex and that it's outrageous to discuss outside the bedroom. So a lot of stuff in the post is not about going outside some professional limit (e.g. few would have been offended if they played with nerf guns in the office, like tons of startups do and most are alright with -- but which a lot of cultures would deem "unprofessional" as well, since it inherently has nothing to do with work). Though this does go beyond limits: And the harassment escalated, she alleged. In December, English called her into his office, shut the door and took off his pants, she claimed. Moore said she was uncomfortable, told him his behavior was “harassment,” and asked to leave the room, but English “would not let her” and began talking about his ex-girlfriend’s faults, she claimed. as it's not mere talk (which can be crude, sensual, or whatever), but actual abuse: nobody asked to see his genitals...

blubb-fish 8y ago
I wouldn't be "offended" by others playing with nerf guns but certainly annoyed ... but I would be offended if others would involve me in this pretty infantile and sub-radar-bullying pastime. who do you think is going to get shot at on a regular basis? but of course it's just fun - right? and no - repetitive exposure to sexualized remarks without positive feedback is sexual harassment. and I am saying that as a European guy who is slightly infamous for very direct and obvious flirting - even at work. but as soon as I get a rejection - even a polite one - I'm going to just accept it and move on. guys like you make work life a terrible experience for others by forcing your idea of fun on them. you should hope to never meet a guy like me b/c that's not going to be a fun experience for you in the end.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >I wouldn't be "offended" by others playing with nerf guns but certainly annoyed ... but I would be offended if others would involve me in this pretty infantile and sub-radar-bullying pastime. who do you think is going to get shot at on a regular basis? Everybody and nobody in particular? >and I am saying that as a European guy who is slightly infamous for very direct and obvious flirting - even at work. but as soon as I get a rejection - even a polite one - I'm going to just accept it and move on. Well, you could have been fired multiple times in the US just for this, so there's that. Have you checked out this "very direct and obvious flirting" against more HR departments? Or because that's where you draw the line you're OK, but anything else suggested by other people is bad (like e.g. complimenting someone on their looks, or telling a "dirty" joke among colleagues). >guys like you make work life a terrible experience for others by forcing your idea of fun on them "Like me"? I guess you felt free to infer that since I'm giving an argument against puritanically singling out sexual expression from various spheres of life I must be some pervert. Which is like believing that no vegan should ever argue in favor of others being able to eat meat... >you should hope to never meet a guy like me b/c that's not going to be a fun experience for you in the end Oh, and physical threats. Yeah, because sexual talk between colleagues is bad, but violence is fine. Typical anglosaxon puritanism (even if from a European), the kind that pushes all sorts of violence on tv, but goes into moral outrage about Janet Jackson's nip slip...
  - blubb-fish 8y ago
    > and physical threats that you interprete that as a physical threat tells more about you than me. I'm certainly not getting physical against anybody at work or pretty much anywhere else ... I'm talking about standing up against bullying by verbal or legal means.
    - coldtea 8y ago
      >that you interprete that as a physical threat Yeah, because "you should hope to never meet a guy like me b/c that's not going to be a fun experience for you in the end" is so open to various interpretations, right? I guess the "tells more about you than me" part is also not an attempt at cheap pop psychology ad hominem either, I just interpreted it as such....
colemickens 8y ago
As I was saying to your other gross, now deleted comment... Context matters. I can talk with my friend, in great detail, about sex. Outside of work. At work, it's inappropriate for the same reasons that talking about religion or politics can be. It will alienate people and make them uncomfortable. But when that extends to have masturbation rooms at work, or your superiors bragging about how great they are at sex (lol), then it crosses a line. A pretty obvious line, to me. Even without the boss undressing. How do you not see that allowing the former sets the culture and leads to the latter? there are power dynamics inherent to the workplace and sex that are undeniable and unignorable if you care about an equal, respectful workplace. No one anywhere has said "sex is dirty" and it strikes me as a pretty flagrant straw man.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >I can talk with my friend, in great detail, about sex. Outside of work. At work, it's inappropriate for the same reasons that talking about religion or politics can be. It will alienate people and make them uncomfortable. In some cultures (e.g. Southern Mediterranean), people are not alienated by talking about "religion or politics" at work either. In fact people do so frequently. See, not everybody shares the cultural constrains of your own culture...
  - colemickens 8y ago
    Thanks for ignoring the entire point of my post to nitpick a single part of a sentence to advance your same point without addressing what I said. I think I'm done with this thread. Enough toxicity for one day.