6 ms·

What tech interns do at trading companies, especially JS, always amazes me. Not because of the complexity of the problem domain but rather the rigor of the solu

What tech interns do at trading companies, especially JS, always amazes me. Not because of the complexity of the problem domain but rather the rigor of the solution. Something like Tristan Hume's famous blog post [0] on Tree Diffing would be unthinkable at Amazon, or most likely even Google or FB. If it's for internal use, they'd just slap together whatever works and looks nice, test the crap out of it and launch (part 2 optional). Nobody would want to spend weeks minimizing the white space like this, especially over 5 weeks. I know multiple people who have interned at Trading companies - all making more than $9k a month - working on optimizing React rendering for tables. They have solutions that are amazing and wonderful because they are superior engineers and computer scientists than mere mortals like me, but for the problem space it seems pretty ridiculous. I know people who have done crazy stuff that has gone into production during their Google, Facebook, or even lesser companies like Amazon internships but were compensated a fraction ($6k a month at Amazon vs. $10k a month at JS). I guess this is the dollar value difference of prestige. [0]: http://thume.ca/2017/06/17/tree-diffing/ http://thume.ca/2017/06/17/tree-diffing/

lhnz 8y ago
> I know multiple people who have interned at Trading companies > - all making more than $9k a month - working on > optimizing React rendering for tables. They have > solutions that are amazing and wonderful because > they are superior engineers and computer scientists > than mere mortals like me, but for the problem space > it seems pretty ridiculous. This is interesting to me. What companies are you referring to?
- sadamznintern 8y ago
  I can't be too specific given how few of these there are (lol), but think on the level of Jane Street, Jump Trading, 2 Sigma and 5 Rings.
  - davidmr 8y ago
    I worked at one of the above and can confirm that the interns, particularly the R&D interns were producing truly excellent work at the forefront of their respective fields, particularly with the mentorship of the senior staff. I'm serving a 1 year non-compete at the moment, and the only thing I find myself actually missing is the internal colloquia for some of the in-house projects and research. It's very, very cool of Jane Street to publish some of these details. All the firms are doing approximately all of the same things tech-wise, so I think Jane Street might get a leg up on the next batch of recruits just for being willing to give them some public credit.
    - sadamznintern 8y ago
      Yup! One of my friends is at Jump right now, and I had to stop talking to him because he makes $10k a month while I make $8k in my full time job (never even got an interview there...) I really wish I was born with the raw intellect to do cool stuff like this.
      - davidmr 8y ago
        If it makes you feel any better, there was no particular shortage of idiots there either, just like any other place.
        sadamznintern 8y ago
        Oh no doubt! But I'd rather be a well paid and connected idiot than a poorly paid smart person.
        Jedd 8y ago
        > But I'd rather be a well paid and connected idiot than a poorly paid smart person. As an aside, this is always an interesting thought experiment. I read an example in John Carreyrou's Bad Blood (Theranos expose) recently: "Several members of the Frat Pack joined Greg and two of his colleagues from the engineering department for lunch on the big terrace overlooking the parking lot one day. A discussion about the low IQs of some of the world’s top soccer players led them to debate the question, Would you rather be smart and poor or dumb and rich? The three engineers all chose smart and poor, while the Frat Pack voted unanimously for dumb and rich. Greg was struck by how clearly the line was drawn between the two groups. They were all in their mid-to late twenties with good educations, but they valued different things."
tozeur 8y ago
It really sounds like you worship these kinds of companies and the people who work there. Hopefully it’s not too personal, but the grass might not be greener on the other side. I grew up in a relatively wealthy family, with extended family coming from poorer backgrounds - and they were just as happy as us. At the end of the day it’s up to you if course, I’d just recommend reflecting on what about those companies/people truly is aspirational besides hot “job prospects.”
- sadamznintern 8y ago
  I spend too much of my day looking at the LinkedIns and Instagrams of my friends and peers who are at "top companies". 1) They all have legitimate accomplishments. They have USAMO/USACO medals, chess trophies, ISEF distinctions, National Merit Scholarships, multiple research papers, etc. Because of this they are all interesting people and have significant pedigree, even if some of them went to similar schools as me. 2) Almost all of them seem to be very photogenic and have wide friend groups who do expensive activities with them (flying, skydiving, Europe trips, skiing, traveling to Thailand, flying to Colorado for the weekend to hike, etc). Even when they're not spending money they're still doing cool stuff, like going to expensive company events or traveling in business class to events. 3) Their friend groups are also accomplished, highly pedigreed individuals. Meanwhile I moved to a new city without knowing anyone now that my intern cohort moved to better and more impressive companies. They all have the money to do anything they want without any real fear, whereas I do not. I don't have their wide friend groups at my company, and the lifestyles of the people at my company are decidedly "normal" because of my peers' advanced ages and differing priorities (many have kids and didn't go to elite schools).
  - tern 8y ago
    This perspective is bullshit. You can do anything you want, without real fear, no matter who you are. There's a panoply of literature to help you change your mindset. Seek it out. > They all have the money to do anything they want without any real fear, whereas I do not. I don't have their wide friend groups at my company, and the lifestyles of the people at my company are decidedly "normal" because of my peers' advanced ages and differing priorities (many have kids and didn't go to elite schools). This is an excuse. I am not anything like the friends you described, and I have a wide circle of friends, and do exactly what I want in life. So does everyone I call a close friend. They all come from completely different backgrounds. It took years of hard work to get here. Start now. Sorry for the off-topic post in this thread, but I think it's deeply important to refute this kind of thinking. Don't waste your life.
deleted 8y ago
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trishume 8y ago
The opportunity to rigorously work on the best solution to a problem was probably my favourite part of Jane Street's engineering culture. They really care about taking your time to do things right rather than getting things hacked together as soon as possible. This means that all the code you touch is very well designed and the systems are all pretty great, it's quite awesome.
- sadamznintern 8y ago
  Yeah, no doubt! Mere mortals like me can't even imagine what that would be like however.
deleted 8y ago
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lhnz 8y ago

> I know multiple people who have interned at Trading companies > - all making more than $9k a month - working on > optimizing React rendering for tables. They have > solutions that are amazing and wonderful because > they are superior engineers and computer scientists > than mere mortals like me, but for the problem space > it seems pretty ridiculous. This is interesting to me. What companies are you referring to?

sadamznintern 8y ago
I can't be too specific given how few of these there are (lol), but think on the level of Jane Street, Jump Trading, 2 Sigma and 5 Rings.
- davidmr 8y ago
  I worked at one of the above and can confirm that the interns, particularly the R&D interns were producing truly excellent work at the forefront of their respective fields, particularly with the mentorship of the senior staff. I'm serving a 1 year non-compete at the moment, and the only thing I find myself actually missing is the internal colloquia for some of the in-house projects and research. It's very, very cool of Jane Street to publish some of these details. All the firms are doing approximately all of the same things tech-wise, so I think Jane Street might get a leg up on the next batch of recruits just for being willing to give them some public credit.
  - sadamznintern 8y ago
    Yup! One of my friends is at Jump right now, and I had to stop talking to him because he makes $10k a month while I make $8k in my full time job (never even got an interview there...) I really wish I was born with the raw intellect to do cool stuff like this.
    - davidmr 8y ago
      If it makes you feel any better, there was no particular shortage of idiots there either, just like any other place.
      - sadamznintern 8y ago
        Oh no doubt! But I'd rather be a well paid and connected idiot than a poorly paid smart person.
        Jedd 8y ago
        > But I'd rather be a well paid and connected idiot than a poorly paid smart person. As an aside, this is always an interesting thought experiment. I read an example in John Carreyrou's Bad Blood (Theranos expose) recently: "Several members of the Frat Pack joined Greg and two of his colleagues from the engineering department for lunch on the big terrace overlooking the parking lot one day. A discussion about the low IQs of some of the world’s top soccer players led them to debate the question, Would you rather be smart and poor or dumb and rich? The three engineers all chose smart and poor, while the Frat Pack voted unanimously for dumb and rich. Greg was struck by how clearly the line was drawn between the two groups. They were all in their mid-to late twenties with good educations, but they valued different things."

tozeur 8y ago

It really sounds like you worship these kinds of companies and the people who work there. Hopefully it’s not too personal, but the grass might not be greener on the other side. I grew up in a relatively wealthy family, with extended family coming from poorer backgrounds - and they were just as happy as us. At the end of the day it’s up to you if course, I’d just recommend reflecting on what about those companies/people truly is aspirational besides hot “job prospects.”

sadamznintern 8y ago
I spend too much of my day looking at the LinkedIns and Instagrams of my friends and peers who are at "top companies". 1) They all have legitimate accomplishments. They have USAMO/USACO medals, chess trophies, ISEF distinctions, National Merit Scholarships, multiple research papers, etc. Because of this they are all interesting people and have significant pedigree, even if some of them went to similar schools as me. 2) Almost all of them seem to be very photogenic and have wide friend groups who do expensive activities with them (flying, skydiving, Europe trips, skiing, traveling to Thailand, flying to Colorado for the weekend to hike, etc). Even when they're not spending money they're still doing cool stuff, like going to expensive company events or traveling in business class to events. 3) Their friend groups are also accomplished, highly pedigreed individuals. Meanwhile I moved to a new city without knowing anyone now that my intern cohort moved to better and more impressive companies. They all have the money to do anything they want without any real fear, whereas I do not. I don't have their wide friend groups at my company, and the lifestyles of the people at my company are decidedly "normal" because of my peers' advanced ages and differing priorities (many have kids and didn't go to elite schools).
- tern 8y ago
  This perspective is bullshit. You can do anything you want, without real fear, no matter who you are. There's a panoply of literature to help you change your mindset. Seek it out. > They all have the money to do anything they want without any real fear, whereas I do not. I don't have their wide friend groups at my company, and the lifestyles of the people at my company are decidedly "normal" because of my peers' advanced ages and differing priorities (many have kids and didn't go to elite schools). This is an excuse. I am not anything like the friends you described, and I have a wide circle of friends, and do exactly what I want in life. So does everyone I call a close friend. They all come from completely different backgrounds. It took years of hard work to get here. Start now. Sorry for the off-topic post in this thread, but I think it's deeply important to refute this kind of thinking. Don't waste your life.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

trishume 8y ago

The opportunity to rigorously work on the best solution to a problem was probably my favourite part of Jane Street's engineering culture. They really care about taking your time to do things right rather than getting things hacked together as soon as possible. This means that all the code you touch is very well designed and the systems are all pretty great, it's quite awesome.

sadamznintern 8y ago
Yeah, no doubt! Mere mortals like me can't even imagine what that would be like however.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]