4 ms·

wow this is super toxic, not to mention probably illegal. I'm surprised nobody else spoke up before. Even as a male I'd find this disturbing and highly dysfunct

by jitix 8y ago

wow this is super toxic, not to mention probably illegal. I'm surprised nobody else spoke up before. Even as a male I'd find this disturbing and highly dysfunctional. I can't even fathom how the plaintiff might have felt. I hope she sues them to oblivion. Such companies don't need to exist.

lobotryas 8y ago
A culture only becomes "toxic"when it encounters someone who doesn't like it. We would bot have had this story if Rachel was never hired in the first place.
- Spooky23 8y ago
  There’s no place for weird bullshit like this in business. Open display of deviant behavior is a weird power trip on the part of whomever is in charge that ultimately speaks more about the incompetence of the investors and board than anything else.
  - lobotryas 8y ago
    You may be too wrapped up in outrage to have seen my bigger point. Anyone can come along and claim a corporate culture is toxic for virtually any reason. If your company had a policy that gave extra breaks for people who smoked and said people formed a clique that excluded non-smokers then you'd have grounds to call this "toxic" and agitate for change just because you didn't smoke yourself.
    - maym86 8y ago
      > Anyone can come along and claim a corporate culture is toxic for virtually any reason. If your company had a policy that... Yes, yes, what about all the cases that aren't actually happening and all the lawsuits occuring for any made up situations that you can come up with? That's what we should focus on. This is a specific example of a toxic culture and sexual harrasment in a workplace. It is real and not a thought experiment. When examples of your imaginary cases come to court we can discuss the merrits of those.
    - kjeetgill 8y ago
      I want to agree with you, anyone can come in and claim toxic. I can get behind being weird and experimental but that doesn't mean there aren't lines worth drawing. The suit isn't happening just over someone who didn't want their norms tested and wanted the corporate culture to conform. She faced retaliation when she didn't reciprocate with English's advances. She got frozen out and harassed. That's just bread and butter bullshit. Classicly toxic work environment. The rest of the weirdness just makes that central issue worse (and probably a catchier headline).
    - Spooky23 8y ago
      When people are watching porn and jerking off in the server closet, it’s toxic.
      - fjsolwmv 8y ago
        Only if it's not done privately.
    - candu 8y ago
      Surely you must concede that, in this particular instance, it's clear-cut that the workplace culture is toxic, and that there are a couple of orders of magnitude in severity between it and this hypothetical non-smoker-excluding office. Surely you must also see that the described behavior is discriminatory. "If they just didn't hire people like X, there wouldn't be a problem" should be a huge red flag, the kind that suggests in a "there be dragons" sort of way that employment and non-discrimination laws might possibly frown upon something here. Surely?
  - stealthmodeclan 8y ago
    Why not? If all employees want it and only one employee doesn't want it, why is it bad? Why the person who doesn't like it just quit and go home. Over the time I've seen in many companies where the employee is OK accepting the "bonus" even when they are clearly aware of the things that come with it but when it's time to deliver on those implied terms, employee rebels. If work is 40-50% of our time, why not fulfill our fantasy at work? Not everyone has a privilege to have a life outside work, we can't serve two masters. One size doesn't fit all. Look at the culture and move on if it's not what you want. Don't be greedy at first then find ways to sue a group in oblivion, that makes you a bad employee and a bad person. I would love to defend the defendants for free. I am an executive too. One outsider who accepted the proposal (greed?) failed to match the work expectation (lack of skills and motivation?) then found ways to act as a victim and thought suing them can actually be more profitable because posing as a victim, demonizes the company and its employees who were OK with its culture. Edit: Downvotes don't teach me anything, enlighten me instead.
    - lern_too_spel 8y ago
      > I would love to defend the plaintiffs for free. The plaintiffs are the people who are bringing the suit.
    - fewfa34t34q5 8y ago
      > If all employees want it and only one employee doesn't want it, why is it bad? Because everyone is supposed to have an equal opportunity for employment, regardless of race, religion, sex, etc. The CEO made sexual advances towards her, and it was demonstrated that her job security would depend on how she reacted to those advances. This amounts to sexual harassment, a form of discrimination against ones sex. The reason people are downvoting you is, if you were really an executive, you'd be expected to know this stuff. So you're playing dumb, or you think the rules don't apply to you. You should not be allowed in any position of power.
    - gdulli 8y ago
      > Edit: Downvotes don't teach me anything, enlighten me instead. Sexual harassment is not just an edge case in a "one size fits all" world. It makes the company liable. By all means, see how far you get trying to defend it. This is not subtle and not new. It's obvious and very well established. If you need to be educated on such basics, it can only mean that you're willfully staying uneducated.
- jacquesm 8y ago
  A toxic culture can be established independent of whether or not we have a story about it, even if Rachel was never hired this would still be about as toxic as it gets. The tools are common sense and a sense of decency, and if those are in short supply inside the company then you could always ask your friendly neighborhood HR consultant how they feel about your place of work and its practices.
dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
Yes, this is sick. This one even more: > When she tried participating “on a very limited basis,” she was immediately given a $20,000 raise and taken more seriously, the complaint states. I don't even want to know what "participating" means here.
- stagger87 8y ago
  The context of that statement would lead me to believe "participating" meant the use of porn lingo in the office.

by jitix 8y ago

lobotryas 8y ago

A culture only becomes "toxic"when it encounters someone who doesn't like it. We would bot have had this story if Rachel was never hired in the first place.

Spooky23 8y ago
There’s no place for weird bullshit like this in business. Open display of deviant behavior is a weird power trip on the part of whomever is in charge that ultimately speaks more about the incompetence of the investors and board than anything else.
- lobotryas 8y ago
  You may be too wrapped up in outrage to have seen my bigger point. Anyone can come along and claim a corporate culture is toxic for virtually any reason. If your company had a policy that gave extra breaks for people who smoked and said people formed a clique that excluded non-smokers then you'd have grounds to call this "toxic" and agitate for change just because you didn't smoke yourself.
  - maym86 8y ago
    > Anyone can come along and claim a corporate culture is toxic for virtually any reason. If your company had a policy that... Yes, yes, what about all the cases that aren't actually happening and all the lawsuits occuring for any made up situations that you can come up with? That's what we should focus on. This is a specific example of a toxic culture and sexual harrasment in a workplace. It is real and not a thought experiment. When examples of your imaginary cases come to court we can discuss the merrits of those.
  - kjeetgill 8y ago
    I want to agree with you, anyone can come in and claim toxic. I can get behind being weird and experimental but that doesn't mean there aren't lines worth drawing. The suit isn't happening just over someone who didn't want their norms tested and wanted the corporate culture to conform. She faced retaliation when she didn't reciprocate with English's advances. She got frozen out and harassed. That's just bread and butter bullshit. Classicly toxic work environment. The rest of the weirdness just makes that central issue worse (and probably a catchier headline).
  - Spooky23 8y ago
    When people are watching porn and jerking off in the server closet, it’s toxic.
    - fjsolwmv 8y ago
      Only if it's not done privately.
  - candu 8y ago
    Surely you must concede that, in this particular instance, it's clear-cut that the workplace culture is toxic, and that there are a couple of orders of magnitude in severity between it and this hypothetical non-smoker-excluding office. Surely you must also see that the described behavior is discriminatory. "If they just didn't hire people like X, there wouldn't be a problem" should be a huge red flag, the kind that suggests in a "there be dragons" sort of way that employment and non-discrimination laws might possibly frown upon something here. Surely?
- stealthmodeclan 8y ago
  Why not? If all employees want it and only one employee doesn't want it, why is it bad? Why the person who doesn't like it just quit and go home. Over the time I've seen in many companies where the employee is OK accepting the "bonus" even when they are clearly aware of the things that come with it but when it's time to deliver on those implied terms, employee rebels. If work is 40-50% of our time, why not fulfill our fantasy at work? Not everyone has a privilege to have a life outside work, we can't serve two masters. One size doesn't fit all. Look at the culture and move on if it's not what you want. Don't be greedy at first then find ways to sue a group in oblivion, that makes you a bad employee and a bad person. I would love to defend the defendants for free. I am an executive too. One outsider who accepted the proposal (greed?) failed to match the work expectation (lack of skills and motivation?) then found ways to act as a victim and thought suing them can actually be more profitable because posing as a victim, demonizes the company and its employees who were OK with its culture. Edit: Downvotes don't teach me anything, enlighten me instead.
  - lern_too_spel 8y ago
    > I would love to defend the plaintiffs for free. The plaintiffs are the people who are bringing the suit.
  - fewfa34t34q5 8y ago
    > If all employees want it and only one employee doesn't want it, why is it bad? Because everyone is supposed to have an equal opportunity for employment, regardless of race, religion, sex, etc. The CEO made sexual advances towards her, and it was demonstrated that her job security would depend on how she reacted to those advances. This amounts to sexual harassment, a form of discrimination against ones sex. The reason people are downvoting you is, if you were really an executive, you'd be expected to know this stuff. So you're playing dumb, or you think the rules don't apply to you. You should not be allowed in any position of power.
  - gdulli 8y ago
    > Edit: Downvotes don't teach me anything, enlighten me instead. Sexual harassment is not just an edge case in a "one size fits all" world. It makes the company liable. By all means, see how far you get trying to defend it. This is not subtle and not new. It's obvious and very well established. If you need to be educated on such basics, it can only mean that you're willfully staying uneducated.
jacquesm 8y ago
A toxic culture can be established independent of whether or not we have a story about it, even if Rachel was never hired this would still be about as toxic as it gets. The tools are common sense and a sense of decency, and if those are in short supply inside the company then you could always ask your friendly neighborhood HR consultant how they feel about your place of work and its practices.

dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago

Yes, this is sick. This one even more: > When she tried participating “on a very limited basis,” she was immediately given a $20,000 raise and taken more seriously, the complaint states. I don't even want to know what "participating" means here.

stagger87 8y ago
The context of that statement would lead me to believe "participating" meant the use of porn lingo in the office.