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Startup Had ‘Masturbation’ Zone, Exec Who Took Off Pants in Meeting: Lawsuit
- lern_too_spel 8y agoThis Daily Beast article twice links to an article from the Mercury News and appears to be just a rewrite of it. https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/08/02/her-tech-boss-took-his-pants-off-in-meeting-that-was-far-from-the-only-issue-lawsuit/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/08/02/her-tech-boss-took-hi...
- dang 8y agoThanks. We changed the url to that from https://www.thedailybeast.com/startup-had-masturbation-zone-exec-who-took-off-pants-in-meeting-lawsuit https://www.thedailybeast.com/startup-had-masturbation-zone-.... Calling that one a rewrite seems kind.
- id_rsa 8y agoThese allegations are more severe than those in a typical sexual harassment lawsuit. I'm interested to read their defense.
- killbrad 8y agoEveryone that enabled this behavior should be blacklisted by any and all respectable companies and investors.
- jitix 8y agowow this is super toxic, not to mention probably illegal. I'm surprised nobody else spoke up before. Even as a male I'd find this disturbing and highly dysfunctional. I can't even fathom how the plaintiff might have felt. I hope she sues them to oblivion. Such companies don't need to exist.
- lobotryas 8y agoA culture only becomes "toxic"when it encounters someone who doesn't like it. We would bot have had this story if Rachel was never hired in the first place.
- Spooky23 8y agoThere’s no place for weird bullshit like this in business. Open display of deviant behavior is a weird power trip on the part of whomever is in charge that ultimately speaks more about the incompetence of the investors and board than anything else.
- lobotryas 8y agoYou may be too wrapped up in outrage to have seen my bigger point. Anyone can come along and claim a corporate culture is toxic for virtually any reason. If your company had a policy that gave extra breaks for people who smoked and said people formed a clique that excluded non-smokers then you'd have grounds to call this "toxic" and agitate for change just because you didn't smoke yourself.
- maym86 8y ago> Anyone can come along and claim a corporate culture is toxic for virtually any reason. If your company had a policy that... Yes, yes, what about all the cases that aren't actually happening and all the lawsuits occuring for any made up situations that you can come up with? That's what we should focus on. This is a specific example of a toxic culture and sexual harrasment in a workplace. It is real and not a thought experiment. When examples of your imaginary cases come to court we can discuss the merrits of those.
- kjeetgill 8y agoI want to agree with you, anyone can come in and claim toxic. I can get behind being weird and experimental but that doesn't mean there aren't lines worth drawing. The suit isn't happening just over someone who didn't want their norms tested and wanted the corporate culture to conform. She faced retaliation when she didn't reciprocate with English's advances. She got frozen out and harassed. That's just bread and butter bullshit. Classicly toxic work environment. The rest of the weirdness just makes that central issue worse (and probably a catchier headline).
- dvfjsdhgfv 8y agoYes, this is sick. This one even more: > When she tried participating “on a very limited basis,” she was immediately given a $20,000 raise and taken more seriously, the complaint states. I don't even want to know what "participating" means here.
- stagger87 8y agoThe context of that statement would lead me to believe "participating" meant the use of porn lingo in the office.
- maehwasu 8y agoWhen Socially Weird Dudes Get Power, Part XXII
- adriansky 8y agoI'm surprised she waited that long to sue them.
- lobotryas 8y agoShe had to gather evidence first. If the facts are truly as the article lays them out to be then this is a slam dunk for her legal team and a nice payday for everyone.
- fullshark 8y agoI'm not sure how she could have proof of any of the accusations beyond perhaps crass emails as circumstantial evidence. A lot of it is the sort of stuff that doesn't leave a paper trail, I doubt there was an official email declaring the server area the masturbation zone, maybe there was something with a double entendre though.
- fjsolwmv 8y agoI suspect that people who set up a "masturbation zone" aren't the best at OpSec.
- acdha 8y agoLook at how we have commenters here running around downplaying it or suggesting that she’s making it up. A legal case is going to expose her to much greater scrutiny, and it’s both expensive and time consuming even if you win. It takes time to prepare for that even if you’re confident that you’ll win.
- jstewartmobile 8y agoAre there so few women out there that these guys can't just get a girlfriend?
- nhumrich 8y agoNo girl is dumb enough to be their girlfriend.
- jstewartmobile 8y agoWhen it comes to what many women put up with, Stanford man-children are fairly benign in comparison.
- electriclove 8y agoThis is not a true statement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Turner https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Turner
- ravenstine 8y agoHow many women have you known personally? I'm not trying to be crass, but if you think women don't date or marry terrible men, you'd better think again.
- stealthmodeclan 8y ago> No girl is dumb enough to be their girlfriend. Being smart has nothing to do with it. People don't make a rational choice while choosing a partner. I am not even remotely good looking compared to many handsome men around. What works is rather simple, if you can do funny things bravely, you'll get the any girl you want. Now, i am from Eastern Europe and Ashkenazi Jew. I am naturally not good looking compared to many other handsome men. But I still don't feel ugly and i am able to attract any woman i want. Many women here threw insult at me but i laughed them off, they are just checking what you are made up of and how difficult it is to agitate you or make you sad, a manchild can't handle this without breaking into tears.
- 8y ago
- lixtra 8y agoMaybe we should hear all involved sides before judging anyone.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- lern_too_spel 8y agoMaybe, but if the allegations are false, the accuser has ended her career one year after getting an MBA from Stanford. It seems unlikely she would take that risk unless she was absolutely sure. I'm inclined to believe some parts are slightly sensationalized, especially as it went through the newspaper translation layer, but that in aggregate, the accusations are true. The "Masturbation Zone" was probably a joke name for a room instead of a place where employees masturbated, for example, and it's The Daily Beast's fault for misleading readers about that.
- ipython 8y agoI’m sure the CTO has a perfectly good reason to drop his pants in his office. Perhaps he urgently needed to urinate and his office door was the best place to do it? While what is alleged is over the top, it’s not all that far from what women face in even the typical workplace. Source: my wife and first hand observations from other coworkers.
- stealthmodeclan 8y ago"I’m sure the CTO has a perfectly good reason to drop his pants in his office. Perhaps he urgently needed to urinate and his office door was the best place to do it?" Droping pant is a way to show that, we are all in the game with new tech stack and we not holding anything back, not even our pants. In a startup, we should do whatever it takes to succeed.
- dang 8y agoWe've banned this account for trolling.
- 8y ago
- dahdum 8y agoHaving spent my whole career working in majority women companies, it’s sometimes hard to picture how poor working environments can be. Articles like this give a disturbing insight. Important to remember that the lawsuit is just one side of the story, written carefully by a lawyer to present the company in the worst possible light, and likely fed to the reporter directly. I’d love to see their response.
- lobotryas 8y agoYou're absolutely correct. We've already had cases that started high on moral outrage and continued so until the plaintiff's case collapsed and it turned out (at least according to the court) that it was all fairytales: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pao_v._Kleiner_Perkins https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pao_v._Kleiner_Perkins
- dantheman0207 8y agoIt seems like the startup was still pretty small, but the plaintiff was hardly the only employee there. If you're working in an environment like this, I think you have a very real responsibility to speak up. If that doesn't work you should leave. Anyone working in tech, especially in SV, has alternatives. You have a moral responsibility to squash out this kind of behavior by making it clear it's not an acceptable workplace - even (especially) if you're not the target of harassment.
- lobotryas 8y agoYou may have meant "ethical responsibility". Viewing porn as immoral doesn't sound very 2018.
- fenwick67 8y agoThe sum of the alleged behaviors here is immoral IMO. Simply watching porn is a world apart from this situation.
- jjeaff 8y agoThere are plenty of people in 2018 that consider supporting an industry rife with abuse, extortion, and even sex trafficking of vulnerable people to be immoral.
- Spooky23 8y agoNo, you don’t. Since startup executive culture (to name one, there are many others) is a friends and family business, the whistleblower employee is more likely to be branded a crazy person and blackballed.
- alexandernst 8y agowhat the fuck did I just read?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- ksec 8y agoIs it because Startup these days get WAY too much money, and far too well paid that they simply ignore all the consequences of what ever they do, as long as they can produce hyper growth ( with no profits )? Or may be they watched a little too much Wolf of Wall Street? P.S I don't know if the site thedailybeast.com is reputable or not, or the story is true or not.
- Proven 8y agoThat's fine. Was anyone forced to work there?
- Thetawaves 8y agoThe amount outright toxic comments and toxic people posting in this thread is astounding. Seriously, boys, grow up and join the professional world. Disgusting.
- coldtea 8y agoWell, not everyone shares the anglosaxon culture of puritan shame about sex and that it's outrageous to discuss outside the bedroom. So a lot of stuff in the post is not about going outside some professional limit (e.g. few would have been offended if they played with nerf guns in the office, like tons of startups do and most are alright with -- but which a lot of cultures would deem "unprofessional" as well, since it inherently has nothing to do with work). Though this does go beyond limits: And the harassment escalated, she alleged. In December, English called her into his office, shut the door and took off his pants, she claimed. Moore said she was uncomfortable, told him his behavior was “harassment,” and asked to leave the room, but English “would not let her” and began talking about his ex-girlfriend’s faults, she claimed. as it's not mere talk (which can be crude, sensual, or whatever), but actual abuse: nobody asked to see his genitals...
- blubb-fish 8y agoI wouldn't be "offended" by others playing with nerf guns but certainly annoyed ... but I would be offended if others would involve me in this pretty infantile and sub-radar-bullying pastime. who do you think is going to get shot at on a regular basis? but of course it's just fun - right? and no - repetitive exposure to sexualized remarks without positive feedback is sexual harassment. and I am saying that as a European guy who is slightly infamous for very direct and obvious flirting - even at work. but as soon as I get a rejection - even a polite one - I'm going to just accept it and move on. guys like you make work life a terrible experience for others by forcing your idea of fun on them. you should hope to never meet a guy like me b/c that's not going to be a fun experience for you in the end.
- coldtea 8y ago>I wouldn't be "offended" by others playing with nerf guns but certainly annoyed ... but I would be offended if others would involve me in this pretty infantile and sub-radar-bullying pastime. who do you think is going to get shot at on a regular basis? Everybody and nobody in particular? >and I am saying that as a European guy who is slightly infamous for very direct and obvious flirting - even at work. but as soon as I get a rejection - even a polite one - I'm going to just accept it and move on. Well, you could have been fired multiple times in the US just for this, so there's that. Have you checked out this "very direct and obvious flirting" against more HR departments? Or because that's where you draw the line you're OK, but anything else suggested by other people is bad (like e.g. complimenting someone on their looks, or telling a "dirty" joke among colleagues). >guys like you make work life a terrible experience for others by forcing your idea of fun on them "Like me"? I guess you felt free to infer that since I'm giving an argument against puritanically singling out sexual expression from various spheres of life I must be some pervert. Which is like believing that no vegan should ever argue in favor of others being able to eat meat... >you should hope to never meet a guy like me b/c that's not going to be a fun experience for you in the end Oh, and physical threats. Yeah, because sexual talk between colleagues is bad, but violence is fine. Typical anglosaxon puritanism (even if from a European), the kind that pushes all sorts of violence on tv, but goes into moral outrage about Janet Jackson's nip slip...
- nielsbot 8y agoWhen I read stories like this I amazed that anybody thinks this kind of behavior is acceptable! It's like we live on different planets. Ok, maybe the getting away with something so inappropriate is thrilling? I want to understand..
- RickJWagner 8y agoSounds terrible. I hope the company is sued into oblivion, and the officers publicly shamed. What an awful place.
- Markoff 8y agothe site requires switching off scripts in order to read article, there is no way i am switching off adblocker
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- cannonedhamster 8y agoAs someone who has, on multiple occasions been required to watch pornography as a part of my job, I cannot fathom how people think that this kind of culture is acceptable in a workplace. It's one thing to have to deal with sexual content, especially in mixed genders, it's an entirely different thing to then turn your workplace into a sexual haven. Unless your job is specifically in the sex trades, there's no reason to ever unzip your pants in front of a co-worker male or female. Keep your privates private. If you really feel the need to masturbate at work there are private stalls in most workplaces that would serve this purpose just fine. The fact that this kind of thing still needs to be said boggles my mind.
- richliss 8y agoWorkplace Wanking - comedy becomes reality: https://youtu.be/VKH9ECC_Qa4 https://youtu.be/VKH9ECC_Qa4
- Spectral 8y agoThis website took so long with load and was loaded with so many animated ads and unresponsive scrolling while more ads just kept popping up slowly it's amazingly awful how [news] sites have gotten these days to try to survive.