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As a pedestrian walking on already crowded sidewalks, I loathe sharing the sidewalk with scooters - even entirely people-powered ones. That extra speed makes t

As a pedestrian walking on already crowded sidewalks, I loathe sharing the sidewalk with scooters - even entirely people-powered ones. That extra speed makes them scary and dangerous, and the people riding them never seem to be considerate of the people they’re sharing the sidewalk with. Not quite as bad as bicycles on the sidewalk, but approaching the same category. IMO we should be repurposing roads not aggressively to make room for cyclists and other modes of transportation like scooters. If scooters are too slow to be safe in the bike lane, make an additional scooter lane and remove some free automobile storage on public property - which is not in fact a birthright.

sleavey 8y ago
Spot on regarding cars parked on public property. Think how much space there would be for cycle lanes and lanes for anything else like scooters if we got rid of all the car storage.
jsemrau 8y ago
I am really looking forward how cities will transform in the next 10 years. I am hoping for less car space and more bike-lanes. Also, everything that has an engine does not belong in the pedestrian zone.
noobermin 8y ago
I think scooters are fast enough in my experience to be in the bike lane or on the right side of the road with bikes as in many US cities. They DO NOT belong on the side walk. I think re bikes on the sidewalk, I'm mostly in favor of a maximum speed limit for sidewalks, as well as general rules regarding if the sidewalk is full of people. I am a cyclist though in a US city with a load of "share the road" signs but few bike lanes and shitty drivers, so I find the sidewalk is safe in certain parts, and of course, no one walks in the US. I walk much less nowadays because I find it's safer for me if I bike.
- LyndsySimon 8y ago
  After spending a few days in Santa Monica and using Birds, I mostly agree. Scooters can be used safely on sidewalks, but many people - probably most - don’t do that. They go as fast as they can. The only thing close to a close call I had in three days was a kid running out from around the corner of a building. I was able to stop in time, but to be fair I was in a roadway, not on a sidewalk, and I had slowed because I saw a blind corner coming up. A bicycle or car would have had a harder time stopping than I did, for that matter. I also got to see a guy clothesline himself on a tree limb in Westwood. That looked like it hurt.
  - dijit 8y ago
    I just left Santa Monica yesterday and I saw the “birds” and the “lime-s” scooters. For the most part people were good with them, but that could be due to the fact you need a drivers license to operate them. In contrast, in Sweden you would not need a drivers license for them, however due to the cycling infrastructure they would very likely be safe, people already drive petrol based mopeds on the cycling infrastructure with no license and do not get into accidents. So I would argue that such devices would “live with the bikes” on any cycle infrastructure that exists, but otherwise on the roads. I wouldn’t enjoy sharing a walk path with a motor vehicle, nor would I enjoy riding an electric scooter on the road. I feel like we should be pushing for more cycle ways if we want to be able to use this type of thing safely.
    - LyndsySimon 8y ago
      Yeah, I was really surprised at the lack of back lanes in Santa Monica. There are some, but not enough. People did treat them mostly like bikes. Bikes aren't allowed on the sidewalks either, but that's where many people ride them.
sharpercoder 8y ago
Cities should have separated ways for power-to-6Km/h speed differences. Pedestrian: 6KM/h bicycle: 18KM/h City scooters: 24 KM/h Fast city scooters: 42 KM/h Cars: 48 KM/h (50KM) Unsure if 12, 30 and 36 must get a new category. For 12, niche electric vehicles usually are around that speed (e.g. mobility scooters, electric toys)
- WillPostForFood 8y ago
  Kind of like The Roads Must Roll by Robert Heinlein. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Roads_Must_Roll https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Roads_Must_Roll
- ehnto 8y ago
  Cities, by which I mean the CBDs, shouldn't have thoroughfare car traffic going through them at all. Take the cars out of the equation and you suddenly get a lot more space and a lot more safety. Obviously it can't work for all roads in a CBD, but none of the compromises I see where there is still mixed traffic work. Unless you are in a car, no one wants to be around them, and in a CBD it is the minority that are in cars.
fudgy73 8y ago
I own one of the Bird scooters (Xiaomi Mi) and I've been commuting with it every (week) day for the last month in Chicago. It's amazing for me, a bicyclist normally that would get too sweaty on the last mile of my commute. I ride in the bike lanes and am faster than most bicyclists. I also feel safer as I am standing up and more easily visible to vehicles. With all this being said, I avoid sidewalks as I don't think anything with wheels besides wheelchairs and strollers should be on sidewalks. I also biked for years on the streets and have a lot of experience. I don't think putting these things everywhere is a good idea unless we get rid of more cars. Too many people are inexperienced with safely riding and it's way too convenient to jump on one and become a nuisance to others. I'm not sure what the answer is, though. Maybe people with enough time on Divvy bikes (our bike share system) get first dibs?
michaelmrose 8y ago
There are a shit ton of cars, a good number of bikes, and a minimal number of scooters. I find it very difficult to believe that there are enough vehicles and lanes to have a separate bike and scooter lane and still have room for cars and pedestrians. Besides which bikes and scooters are similar enough to share a lane.
dominotw 8y ago
I ride my electric unicycle at ~10 miles/hr on sidewalks. Slightly faster than walking but way slower than a bike. I can stop instantly( unlike one wheels) an slow down to less than walking speed if needed. I don't see why I can't share the sidewalk with pedestrians.
- c22 8y ago
  I'm a pretty fast walker and I go about 3.5-3.8mph, so you are going ~3 times faster than me.
  - dominotw 8y ago
    oh yea you are right. sorry I misstated. 10 mph is the top speed on my segway one s1 and I never hit top speed on the sidewalk. So maybe around 6-7 mph which is twice the walking speed, ppl running for a workout overtake me.
- kwhitefoot 8y ago
  Plenty of electric unicycles here in Norway and I would say that they are the only vehicles that should be allowed on the pavement/sidewalk/fortau. The mostly go only about as fast as a moderately fit jogger.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
dionidium 8y ago
> As a pedestrian walking on already crowded sidewalks The real pathology here is that we allow automobiles to pass so freely through anywhere lucky enough to have over-crowded sidewalks. One can imagine a quieter, safer, more humane Midtown Manhattan in which scooters and bicycles and pedestrians coexist in harmony. Instead one experiences the insane and constant honking of frustrated drivers, who, like a baby who doesn’t know why it cries, demand that their problems require the attention of your ears, too.
scotty79 8y ago
Move to Florence, Italy for few months to get rid of your fear of sharing sidewalk with two wheeled vehicles. Even in densest foot traffic there you'll find a bicycle navigating safely between people or even full sized scooter. At first it looked bonkers for me but aftr few month it became natural as pedestrian and even as a cyclist.

sleavey 8y ago

Spot on regarding cars parked on public property. Think how much space there would be for cycle lanes and lanes for anything else like scooters if we got rid of all the car storage.

jsemrau 8y ago

I am really looking forward how cities will transform in the next 10 years. I am hoping for less car space and more bike-lanes. Also, everything that has an engine does not belong in the pedestrian zone.

noobermin 8y ago

I think scooters are fast enough in my experience to be in the bike lane or on the right side of the road with bikes as in many US cities. They DO NOT belong on the side walk. I think re bikes on the sidewalk, I'm mostly in favor of a maximum speed limit for sidewalks, as well as general rules regarding if the sidewalk is full of people. I am a cyclist though in a US city with a load of "share the road" signs but few bike lanes and shitty drivers, so I find the sidewalk is safe in certain parts, and of course, no one walks in the US. I walk much less nowadays because I find it's safer for me if I bike.

LyndsySimon 8y ago
After spending a few days in Santa Monica and using Birds, I mostly agree. Scooters can be used safely on sidewalks, but many people - probably most - don’t do that. They go as fast as they can. The only thing close to a close call I had in three days was a kid running out from around the corner of a building. I was able to stop in time, but to be fair I was in a roadway, not on a sidewalk, and I had slowed because I saw a blind corner coming up. A bicycle or car would have had a harder time stopping than I did, for that matter. I also got to see a guy clothesline himself on a tree limb in Westwood. That looked like it hurt.
- dijit 8y ago
  I just left Santa Monica yesterday and I saw the “birds” and the “lime-s” scooters. For the most part people were good with them, but that could be due to the fact you need a drivers license to operate them. In contrast, in Sweden you would not need a drivers license for them, however due to the cycling infrastructure they would very likely be safe, people already drive petrol based mopeds on the cycling infrastructure with no license and do not get into accidents. So I would argue that such devices would “live with the bikes” on any cycle infrastructure that exists, but otherwise on the roads. I wouldn’t enjoy sharing a walk path with a motor vehicle, nor would I enjoy riding an electric scooter on the road. I feel like we should be pushing for more cycle ways if we want to be able to use this type of thing safely.
  - LyndsySimon 8y ago
    Yeah, I was really surprised at the lack of back lanes in Santa Monica. There are some, but not enough. People did treat them mostly like bikes. Bikes aren't allowed on the sidewalks either, but that's where many people ride them.

sharpercoder 8y ago

Cities should have separated ways for power-to-6Km/h speed differences. Pedestrian: 6KM/h bicycle: 18KM/h City scooters: 24 KM/h Fast city scooters: 42 KM/h Cars: 48 KM/h (50KM) Unsure if 12, 30 and 36 must get a new category. For 12, niche electric vehicles usually are around that speed (e.g. mobility scooters, electric toys)

WillPostForFood 8y ago
Kind of like The Roads Must Roll by Robert Heinlein. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Roads_Must_Roll https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Roads_Must_Roll
ehnto 8y ago
Cities, by which I mean the CBDs, shouldn't have thoroughfare car traffic going through them at all. Take the cars out of the equation and you suddenly get a lot more space and a lot more safety. Obviously it can't work for all roads in a CBD, but none of the compromises I see where there is still mixed traffic work. Unless you are in a car, no one wants to be around them, and in a CBD it is the minority that are in cars.

fudgy73 8y ago

I own one of the Bird scooters (Xiaomi Mi) and I've been commuting with it every (week) day for the last month in Chicago. It's amazing for me, a bicyclist normally that would get too sweaty on the last mile of my commute. I ride in the bike lanes and am faster than most bicyclists. I also feel safer as I am standing up and more easily visible to vehicles. With all this being said, I avoid sidewalks as I don't think anything with wheels besides wheelchairs and strollers should be on sidewalks. I also biked for years on the streets and have a lot of experience. I don't think putting these things everywhere is a good idea unless we get rid of more cars. Too many people are inexperienced with safely riding and it's way too convenient to jump on one and become a nuisance to others. I'm not sure what the answer is, though. Maybe people with enough time on Divvy bikes (our bike share system) get first dibs?

michaelmrose 8y ago

There are a shit ton of cars, a good number of bikes, and a minimal number of scooters. I find it very difficult to believe that there are enough vehicles and lanes to have a separate bike and scooter lane and still have room for cars and pedestrians. Besides which bikes and scooters are similar enough to share a lane.

dominotw 8y ago

I ride my electric unicycle at ~10 miles/hr on sidewalks. Slightly faster than walking but way slower than a bike. I can stop instantly( unlike one wheels) an slow down to less than walking speed if needed. I don't see why I can't share the sidewalk with pedestrians.

c22 8y ago
I'm a pretty fast walker and I go about 3.5-3.8mph, so you are going ~3 times faster than me.
- dominotw 8y ago
  oh yea you are right. sorry I misstated. 10 mph is the top speed on my segway one s1 and I never hit top speed on the sidewalk. So maybe around 6-7 mph which is twice the walking speed, ppl running for a workout overtake me.
kwhitefoot 8y ago
Plenty of electric unicycles here in Norway and I would say that they are the only vehicles that should be allowed on the pavement/sidewalk/fortau. The mostly go only about as fast as a moderately fit jogger.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

dionidium 8y ago

> As a pedestrian walking on already crowded sidewalks The real pathology here is that we allow automobiles to pass so freely through anywhere lucky enough to have over-crowded sidewalks. One can imagine a quieter, safer, more humane Midtown Manhattan in which scooters and bicycles and pedestrians coexist in harmony. Instead one experiences the insane and constant honking of frustrated drivers, who, like a baby who doesn’t know why it cries, demand that their problems require the attention of your ears, too.

scotty79 8y ago

Move to Florence, Italy for few months to get rid of your fear of sharing sidewalk with two wheeled vehicles. Even in densest foot traffic there you'll find a bicycle navigating safely between people or even full sized scooter. At first it looked bonkers for me but aftr few month it became natural as pedestrian and even as a cyclist.