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If Norway can rehabilitate those addicts, then great. What’s the problem with needle exchanges? What sort of alternative strategies do you have in mind?

LargeWu 8y ago
I don't think the plan is to rehabilitate them. I think the plan is to mitigate the consequences of addicts taking harmful actions towards others (robbery, assault) in order to get their fix. The theory is it's cheaper and safer to society to just give addicts what they need so their addiction doesn't harm others.
- doyoulikeworms 8y ago
  I think this is program could help their chances of rehabilitation. If they need to commit crimes to get more drugs, then I imagine that they're likely gaining criminal records and "falling into a bad crowd". This kind of stuff makes it hard to rebuild their lives when/if they choose to. This is out of my wheelhouse and am just speculating. I would love to see data or research on this, though, if it exists.
claydavisss 8y ago
How does free heroin rehabilitate anyone? When did Norwegian taxpayers sign up to fund a global heroin haven? It's pretty simple...if you are a heroin addict anywhere in the world who can afford a one-way ticket to Norway... Of course much of the free heroin will end up being resold elsewhere, and causing misery elsewhere. Norway could end up causing a heroin epidemic as their high-quality drugs flood Europe. This is like Christmas for organized crime...a government manufacturing a potentially unlimited supply of quality drugs.
- mnm1 8y ago
  You clearly have no idea what you're taking about or how these programs work. You really think they just hand you a bag of heroin and bye, bye go do whatever you want with it? Addicts administer or are administered heroin at the clinic under supervision. They don't walk out with the drugs. These programs are already in place in multiple places on Europe and they are not flooding anything with drugs except addicts' veins. As for the notion of heroin addicts being able to afford plane tickets... That's hilarious and incredibly ignorant bordering on delusional and downright stupid.
- EliRivers 8y ago
  How does free heroin rehabilitate anyone? They stop spending all their time doing whatever it takes to get heroin. They can do other things with that time. Get jobs, for example. It's basically opening the door to rehabilitation. If by "rehabilitated" you mean "not addicted to heroin", sure, not so much. If you mean "no longer a danger to society", very much so.
- amaccuish 8y ago
  > Norway could end up causing a heroin epidemic as their high-quality drugs flood Europe From a quick wikipedia search: Heroin assisted treatment is fully a part of the national health system in Switzerland, Germany, the Netherlands, Canada, and Denmark. Additional trials are being carried out in the United Kingdom, and Belgium. ^I feel like you missed the boat on this one. > How does free heroin rehabilitate anyone? I don't know if you've noticed, but the current norms of tackling addication aren't working well at all. Countries that have experimented appear to be achieving good results. See https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radical-drugs-policy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radic... On portugal (from https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/norway-parliament-drugs-decriminalise-recreational-cocaine-heroin-marijuana-a8111761.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/norway-parliament-...): The Norwegian Health Committee is planning a trip to Portugal in February, which decriminalised personal possession of drugs in 2001. The country made the move following a heroin epidemic and the highest drug-related Aids deaths in the European Union (EU). It now has the second lowest drug-related deaths in the EU. > When did Norwegian taxpayers sign up to fund a global heroin haven Here (ignoring the other part of your loaded question): https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/norway-parliament-drugs-decriminalise-recreational-cocaine-heroin-marijuana-a8111761.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/norway-parliament-... The GP asked for alternative strategies, which you have not provided, and which would be helpful.
- incadenza 8y ago
  So lets get this straight. The whole world of heroin addicts will flood to Norway, but then the people nearest to Norway (who likely don't have to fly) are going to be impacted by this illegal trade? Selling something that is free is not a lucrative business for the Mafia. I think you have to make up your mind about the exaggerated scenarios you're imagining. Here's two straightforward policies that would ameliorate these concerns: 1) Dole out the drugs on site. This is done already all over the world all the time. No take home doses. 2) This is a last resort of Norwegian citizens who have tried other methods of recovery. If you read the article, you'd see it will affect about 400 people. This is a good start, hardly a global heroin empire.
  - gspetr 8y ago
    > Selling something that is free is not a lucrative business for the Mafia It can only be considered truly free if the supply is unlimited per person, as in an "all-you-can-eat" model. If I gave you 100 milliliters of milk per day then you could technically make the claim that you have milk for free, but you won't be able to drink even a full glass of it.
    - incadenza 8y ago
      That’s fair, and I happen to agree with you. I just don’t think this particular concern is realistic given some very basic regulations in place.

LargeWu 8y ago

I don't think the plan is to rehabilitate them. I think the plan is to mitigate the consequences of addicts taking harmful actions towards others (robbery, assault) in order to get their fix. The theory is it's cheaper and safer to society to just give addicts what they need so their addiction doesn't harm others.

doyoulikeworms 8y ago
I think this is program could help their chances of rehabilitation. If they need to commit crimes to get more drugs, then I imagine that they're likely gaining criminal records and "falling into a bad crowd". This kind of stuff makes it hard to rebuild their lives when/if they choose to. This is out of my wheelhouse and am just speculating. I would love to see data or research on this, though, if it exists.

claydavisss 8y ago

How does free heroin rehabilitate anyone? When did Norwegian taxpayers sign up to fund a global heroin haven? It's pretty simple...if you are a heroin addict anywhere in the world who can afford a one-way ticket to Norway... Of course much of the free heroin will end up being resold elsewhere, and causing misery elsewhere. Norway could end up causing a heroin epidemic as their high-quality drugs flood Europe. This is like Christmas for organized crime...a government manufacturing a potentially unlimited supply of quality drugs.

mnm1 8y ago
You clearly have no idea what you're taking about or how these programs work. You really think they just hand you a bag of heroin and bye, bye go do whatever you want with it? Addicts administer or are administered heroin at the clinic under supervision. They don't walk out with the drugs. These programs are already in place in multiple places on Europe and they are not flooding anything with drugs except addicts' veins. As for the notion of heroin addicts being able to afford plane tickets... That's hilarious and incredibly ignorant bordering on delusional and downright stupid.
EliRivers 8y ago
How does free heroin rehabilitate anyone? They stop spending all their time doing whatever it takes to get heroin. They can do other things with that time. Get jobs, for example. It's basically opening the door to rehabilitation. If by "rehabilitated" you mean "not addicted to heroin", sure, not so much. If you mean "no longer a danger to society", very much so.
amaccuish 8y ago
> Norway could end up causing a heroin epidemic as their high-quality drugs flood Europe From a quick wikipedia search: Heroin assisted treatment is fully a part of the national health system in Switzerland, Germany, the Netherlands, Canada, and Denmark. Additional trials are being carried out in the United Kingdom, and Belgium. ^I feel like you missed the boat on this one. > How does free heroin rehabilitate anyone? I don't know if you've noticed, but the current norms of tackling addication aren't working well at all. Countries that have experimented appear to be achieving good results. See https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radical-drugs-policy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radic... On portugal (from https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/norway-parliament-drugs-decriminalise-recreational-cocaine-heroin-marijuana-a8111761.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/norway-parliament-...): The Norwegian Health Committee is planning a trip to Portugal in February, which decriminalised personal possession of drugs in 2001. The country made the move following a heroin epidemic and the highest drug-related Aids deaths in the European Union (EU). It now has the second lowest drug-related deaths in the EU. > When did Norwegian taxpayers sign up to fund a global heroin haven Here (ignoring the other part of your loaded question): https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/norway-parliament-drugs-decriminalise-recreational-cocaine-heroin-marijuana-a8111761.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/norway-parliament-... The GP asked for alternative strategies, which you have not provided, and which would be helpful.
incadenza 8y ago
So lets get this straight. The whole world of heroin addicts will flood to Norway, but then the people nearest to Norway (who likely don't have to fly) are going to be impacted by this illegal trade? Selling something that is free is not a lucrative business for the Mafia. I think you have to make up your mind about the exaggerated scenarios you're imagining. Here's two straightforward policies that would ameliorate these concerns: 1) Dole out the drugs on site. This is done already all over the world all the time. No take home doses. 2) This is a last resort of Norwegian citizens who have tried other methods of recovery. If you read the article, you'd see it will affect about 400 people. This is a good start, hardly a global heroin empire.
- gspetr 8y ago
  > Selling something that is free is not a lucrative business for the Mafia It can only be considered truly free if the supply is unlimited per person, as in an "all-you-can-eat" model. If I gave you 100 milliliters of milk per day then you could technically make the claim that you have milk for free, but you won't be able to drink even a full glass of it.
  - incadenza 8y ago
    That’s fair, and I happen to agree with you. I just don’t think this particular concern is realistic given some very basic regulations in place.