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Like needle exchanges, this will be an idea that progressives will eventually realize is outrageously naive and stupid. Sorry. Norway will slowly collect addic

Like needle exchanges, this will be an idea that progressives will eventually realize is outrageously naive and stupid. Sorry. Norway will slowly collect addicts just as SF and LA have collected homeless. They aren't as dumb and helpless as you think, they will gravitate to places where their situation is condoned and supported. Norway should expect a minimum of 50k Americans to scrounge together for a one-way trip...free heroin? That is a fantasy for any addict.

deathanatos 8y ago
> just as SF and LA have collected homeless SF conducts a sort of census of their homeless population. One of the questions asked is where the person lived when they became homeless. The majority are from SF[1]: > Sixty-nine percent (69%) of respondents reported they were living in San Francisco at the time they most recently became homeless. Of those, over half (55%) had lived in San Francisco for 10 or more years. The idea that SF "collects" homeless people (from elsewhere) is a myth not supported by data. [1]: http://hsh.sfgov.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/2017-SF-Point-in-Time-Count-General-FINAL-6.21.17.pdf http://hsh.sfgov.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/2017-SF-Poin...
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > The idea that SF "collects" homeless people (from elsewhere) is a myth not supported by data. It is, actually, supported by the data you just posted to refute it, which indicates nearly a third of SF homeless were not in SF when they became homeless.
- doyoulikeworms 8y ago
  31% of homeless in SF came from elsewhere. This evidence may actually go against your opinion... What are the numbers like for other cities?
  - lev99 8y ago
    > What are the numbers like for other cities? Those numbers aren't collected in a national and standardized way. Even if other cities collected data about this question, please don't compare the numbers without also comparing survey methodology.
  - ratacat 8y ago
    That actually seems a good deal less than the ratio of non homeless folks that are not from San Francisco (much larger than 31%)
- claydavisss 8y ago
  Absolute numbers matter too. SF and LA have higher absolute numbers of homeless because both cities tolerate it.
doyoulikeworms 8y ago
If Norway can rehabilitate those addicts, then great. What’s the problem with needle exchanges? What sort of alternative strategies do you have in mind?
- LargeWu 8y ago
  I don't think the plan is to rehabilitate them. I think the plan is to mitigate the consequences of addicts taking harmful actions towards others (robbery, assault) in order to get their fix. The theory is it's cheaper and safer to society to just give addicts what they need so their addiction doesn't harm others.
  - doyoulikeworms 8y ago
    I think this is program could help their chances of rehabilitation. If they need to commit crimes to get more drugs, then I imagine that they're likely gaining criminal records and "falling into a bad crowd". This kind of stuff makes it hard to rebuild their lives when/if they choose to. This is out of my wheelhouse and am just speculating. I would love to see data or research on this, though, if it exists.
- claydavisss 8y ago
  How does free heroin rehabilitate anyone? When did Norwegian taxpayers sign up to fund a global heroin haven? It's pretty simple...if you are a heroin addict anywhere in the world who can afford a one-way ticket to Norway... Of course much of the free heroin will end up being resold elsewhere, and causing misery elsewhere. Norway could end up causing a heroin epidemic as their high-quality drugs flood Europe. This is like Christmas for organized crime...a government manufacturing a potentially unlimited supply of quality drugs.
  - mnm1 8y ago
    You clearly have no idea what you're taking about or how these programs work. You really think they just hand you a bag of heroin and bye, bye go do whatever you want with it? Addicts administer or are administered heroin at the clinic under supervision. They don't walk out with the drugs. These programs are already in place in multiple places on Europe and they are not flooding anything with drugs except addicts' veins. As for the notion of heroin addicts being able to afford plane tickets... That's hilarious and incredibly ignorant bordering on delusional and downright stupid.
mnm1 8y ago
Needle exchanges are a great idea. They prevent the spread of HIV, hep c, and so many other diseases at a miniscule cost to society. What's stupid is not allowing addicts to get clean needles like a lot of states used to and likely still do. It puts the whole populace at risk of disease just to enforce some idiotic idea of morality or worse, what you suggest, to keep addicts from congregating outside the exchange. That's not even a serious concern when the alternative is to spread diseases and let people, both addicts and non addicts suffer and die from disease. I understand some people hate addicts so much they want them to die, but to spread deadly diseases throughout society because you hate addicts that much is beyond immoral and frankly, despicable.
the_mitsuhiko 8y ago
> Like needle exchanges, this will be an idea that progressives will eventually realize is outrageously naive and stupid. Sorry. This program is working for more than 20 years in many European countries already. Why would it all the sudden fail in Norway?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

deathanatos 8y ago

> just as SF and LA have collected homeless SF conducts a sort of census of their homeless population. One of the questions asked is where the person lived when they became homeless. The majority are from SF[1]: > Sixty-nine percent (69%) of respondents reported they were living in San Francisco at the time they most recently became homeless. Of those, over half (55%) had lived in San Francisco for 10 or more years. The idea that SF "collects" homeless people (from elsewhere) is a myth not supported by data. [1]: http://hsh.sfgov.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/2017-SF-Point-in-Time-Count-General-FINAL-6.21.17.pdf http://hsh.sfgov.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/2017-SF-Poin...

dragonwriter 8y ago
> The idea that SF "collects" homeless people (from elsewhere) is a myth not supported by data. It is, actually, supported by the data you just posted to refute it, which indicates nearly a third of SF homeless were not in SF when they became homeless.
doyoulikeworms 8y ago
31% of homeless in SF came from elsewhere. This evidence may actually go against your opinion... What are the numbers like for other cities?
- lev99 8y ago
  > What are the numbers like for other cities? Those numbers aren't collected in a national and standardized way. Even if other cities collected data about this question, please don't compare the numbers without also comparing survey methodology.
- ratacat 8y ago
  That actually seems a good deal less than the ratio of non homeless folks that are not from San Francisco (much larger than 31%)
claydavisss 8y ago
Absolute numbers matter too. SF and LA have higher absolute numbers of homeless because both cities tolerate it.

doyoulikeworms 8y ago

If Norway can rehabilitate those addicts, then great. What’s the problem with needle exchanges? What sort of alternative strategies do you have in mind?

LargeWu 8y ago
I don't think the plan is to rehabilitate them. I think the plan is to mitigate the consequences of addicts taking harmful actions towards others (robbery, assault) in order to get their fix. The theory is it's cheaper and safer to society to just give addicts what they need so their addiction doesn't harm others.
- doyoulikeworms 8y ago
  I think this is program could help their chances of rehabilitation. If they need to commit crimes to get more drugs, then I imagine that they're likely gaining criminal records and "falling into a bad crowd". This kind of stuff makes it hard to rebuild their lives when/if they choose to. This is out of my wheelhouse and am just speculating. I would love to see data or research on this, though, if it exists.
claydavisss 8y ago
How does free heroin rehabilitate anyone? When did Norwegian taxpayers sign up to fund a global heroin haven? It's pretty simple...if you are a heroin addict anywhere in the world who can afford a one-way ticket to Norway... Of course much of the free heroin will end up being resold elsewhere, and causing misery elsewhere. Norway could end up causing a heroin epidemic as their high-quality drugs flood Europe. This is like Christmas for organized crime...a government manufacturing a potentially unlimited supply of quality drugs.
- mnm1 8y ago
  You clearly have no idea what you're taking about or how these programs work. You really think they just hand you a bag of heroin and bye, bye go do whatever you want with it? Addicts administer or are administered heroin at the clinic under supervision. They don't walk out with the drugs. These programs are already in place in multiple places on Europe and they are not flooding anything with drugs except addicts' veins. As for the notion of heroin addicts being able to afford plane tickets... That's hilarious and incredibly ignorant bordering on delusional and downright stupid.

mnm1 8y ago

Needle exchanges are a great idea. They prevent the spread of HIV, hep c, and so many other diseases at a miniscule cost to society. What's stupid is not allowing addicts to get clean needles like a lot of states used to and likely still do. It puts the whole populace at risk of disease just to enforce some idiotic idea of morality or worse, what you suggest, to keep addicts from congregating outside the exchange. That's not even a serious concern when the alternative is to spread diseases and let people, both addicts and non addicts suffer and die from disease. I understand some people hate addicts so much they want them to die, but to spread deadly diseases throughout society because you hate addicts that much is beyond immoral and frankly, despicable.

the_mitsuhiko 8y ago

> Like needle exchanges, this will be an idea that progressives will eventually realize is outrageously naive and stupid. Sorry. This program is working for more than 20 years in many European countries already. Why would it all the sudden fail in Norway?

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]