4 ms·

Brazil is the example I use to explain to people why I'm in favor of the 2nd amendment and Stand Your Ground laws. When owning a gun is criminal, only criminal

Brazil is the example I use to explain to people why I'm in favor of the 2nd amendment and Stand Your Ground laws. When owning a gun is criminal, only criminals will have guns and everyone else will be unable to defend themselves. If ordinary citizens had guns, at least in their own home, the criminals would think twice about breaking and entering because they won't know which homes are armed.

mnm1 8y ago
This also somewhat works as a deterrent when those criminals are dressed in blue and carry badges if it's widespread in society, although clearly it only prevents the worst of the worst abuses as seen in the US.
lhorie 8y ago
In Brazil? I don't think US gun mentality works there. Have you seen what middle class houses look like in Sao Paulo? They have metal bars in all windows, tall spiked gates and tetra locks are fairly common. But that doesn't stop thieves from being crafty and daring. They rob people at gunpoint at busy intersections and ATMs in broad daylight, do flash kidnappings, etc. There was even a raid at a police headquarters one time. And we haven't even got to favelas, which are an entire different can of worms.
- goshx 8y ago
  Well, yes, they do it because they know the population is not armed.
  - lhorie 8y ago
    Not really, they do it because they know can get away with it. I've heard horror stories of people that got attacked by like 7 guys holding assault rifles when the wife was pulling into the garage. Your safety magnum in the bedroom isn't gonna do anything for you in that case, and chances are they are just gonna steal it from you if they find it. Also, a lot of robberies happen on the streets. A middle-class person open-carrying a gun is just going to be a pickpocket target, and concealed carry is going to be vulnerable to two-team robbers (one approaches you, the hidden one shoots you from the back if you fight back). In a favela, the drug gang would probably just raid your house and steal your gun, if you could even afford one. Or, more likely, your kid would end up joining the gang.
    - goshx 8y ago
      It’s not a dichotomy. Both are reasons why they do it.
    - MrEfficiency 8y ago
      If you dont think having guns would change this situation, you are oblivious.
      - lhorie 8y ago
        I never said guns would not change the situation, but I do believe they would make things worse. When was the last time you've heard of a gun-wielding vigilante saving the day in the US? Was he in his car with his family getting robbed by 3 teenagers at a stop light? I lived in Brazil and I've been robbed and I've witnessed people being shot in gang fights, and I don't see how having a gun on me would've helped, so forgive me if I'm cynical of armchair vigilantism.
        malandrew 8y ago
        This happened in Brazil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VThEm-UhFIs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VThEm-UhFIs I suspect that the reason you don't hear about a "gun-wielding vigilante saving the day in the US" has more to do with the media sources you consume. Here is a scholarly article detailing how common defensive gun use is in the United States: https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=6853&context=jclc https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewconten... Estimates range from 100,000 to 2.5 million. Even at the very very low end of those estimates, there are at least 100,000 instances of a "gun-wielding vigilante saving the day in the US" every year that you never hear about. I also suspect it's hard to understand how a gun would have helped you when you don't know how to use a gun, which I suspect is the case given your position on guns from this thread. It's entirely possible for the average citizen to acquire the same firearm training as a police officer or soldier and therefore be capable of providing the same level of protection.
        8y ago
- malandrew 8y ago
  I'm Brazilian.
tinco 8y ago
When owning a gun is criminal, only some criminals will have guns instead of all of them. And defending yourself with a gun is idiocy. Not that I am against the second amendment, I think some idealism in your constitution is great. Much better than the cynical heartlessness your country is ruled with today.
matheusmoreira 8y ago
While I agree that being able to own weapons is a great thing, that alone wouldn't stop all types of crimes. One might be able to protect oneself from some random robber and other opportunistic types, but killing a well-connected or powerful criminal might cause a small army to hunt down the one responsible. No citizen can take on drug lords alone.

mnm1 8y ago

This also somewhat works as a deterrent when those criminals are dressed in blue and carry badges if it's widespread in society, although clearly it only prevents the worst of the worst abuses as seen in the US.

lhorie 8y ago

In Brazil? I don't think US gun mentality works there. Have you seen what middle class houses look like in Sao Paulo? They have metal bars in all windows, tall spiked gates and tetra locks are fairly common. But that doesn't stop thieves from being crafty and daring. They rob people at gunpoint at busy intersections and ATMs in broad daylight, do flash kidnappings, etc. There was even a raid at a police headquarters one time. And we haven't even got to favelas, which are an entire different can of worms.

goshx 8y ago
Well, yes, they do it because they know the population is not armed.
- lhorie 8y ago
  Not really, they do it because they know can get away with it. I've heard horror stories of people that got attacked by like 7 guys holding assault rifles when the wife was pulling into the garage. Your safety magnum in the bedroom isn't gonna do anything for you in that case, and chances are they are just gonna steal it from you if they find it. Also, a lot of robberies happen on the streets. A middle-class person open-carrying a gun is just going to be a pickpocket target, and concealed carry is going to be vulnerable to two-team robbers (one approaches you, the hidden one shoots you from the back if you fight back). In a favela, the drug gang would probably just raid your house and steal your gun, if you could even afford one. Or, more likely, your kid would end up joining the gang.
  - goshx 8y ago
    It’s not a dichotomy. Both are reasons why they do it.
  - MrEfficiency 8y ago
    If you dont think having guns would change this situation, you are oblivious.
    - lhorie 8y ago
      I never said guns would not change the situation, but I do believe they would make things worse. When was the last time you've heard of a gun-wielding vigilante saving the day in the US? Was he in his car with his family getting robbed by 3 teenagers at a stop light? I lived in Brazil and I've been robbed and I've witnessed people being shot in gang fights, and I don't see how having a gun on me would've helped, so forgive me if I'm cynical of armchair vigilantism.
      - malandrew 8y ago
        This happened in Brazil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VThEm-UhFIs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VThEm-UhFIs I suspect that the reason you don't hear about a "gun-wielding vigilante saving the day in the US" has more to do with the media sources you consume. Here is a scholarly article detailing how common defensive gun use is in the United States: https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=6853&context=jclc https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewconten... Estimates range from 100,000 to 2.5 million. Even at the very very low end of those estimates, there are at least 100,000 instances of a "gun-wielding vigilante saving the day in the US" every year that you never hear about. I also suspect it's hard to understand how a gun would have helped you when you don't know how to use a gun, which I suspect is the case given your position on guns from this thread. It's entirely possible for the average citizen to acquire the same firearm training as a police officer or soldier and therefore be capable of providing the same level of protection.
        8y ago
malandrew 8y ago
I'm Brazilian.

tinco 8y ago

When owning a gun is criminal, only some criminals will have guns instead of all of them. And defending yourself with a gun is idiocy. Not that I am against the second amendment, I think some idealism in your constitution is great. Much better than the cynical heartlessness your country is ruled with today.

matheusmoreira 8y ago

While I agree that being able to own weapons is a great thing, that alone wouldn't stop all types of crimes. One might be able to protect oneself from some random robber and other opportunistic types, but killing a well-connected or powerful criminal might cause a small army to hunt down the one responsible. No citizen can take on drug lords alone.