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I think this Medium post is important in light of the recent release of the Stack Overflow Code of Conduct, https://stackoverflow.com/conduct https://stackoverf

I think this Medium post is important in light of the recent release of the Stack Overflow Code of Conduct, https://stackoverflow.com/conduct https://stackoverflow.com/conduct, which I whole-heartedly support. I don't know if this Code of Conduct will have the effect that April Wensel seems to want, but it would be nice if it did. I find that a lot of sites oriented toward professional coders, engineers, etc., have some aspects of the negativity discussed in this article. This has a deleterious effect on newcomers to the sites, not just people who are not part of the largest coding demographic.

rubatuga 8y ago
Why do you think many tech communities move towards this style of conversation? I’m trying to hypothesize a few reasons, but it could be an emergent phenomena from individual elitism, competition, or maybe ladder kicking. But I agree, this will turn away newcomers. Maybe that’s their goal?
- dave_aiello 8y ago
  I'm a newcomer to Hacker News, but I have been a user of Stack Overflow and, more generally, Stack Exchange for some time. So perhaps I can still speak about the experience of a newcomer. In my experience, neither site suffers fools gladly. This morning I made a comment on a post on the first page of Hacker News. In it, I made reference to a project that I am working on independently. A more senior user of Hacker News read my comment, considered it self-serving, and primarily a reference to my product. Then, he downvoted my comment (something I cannot do as a newcomer), looked at my other comments (something I didn't know how to do until later), and left a comment saying that nearly all of my comments on this site referenced my project and weren't substantively about the articles where they appeared. As soon as I saw this comment I apologized, and said I wished that I could delete my comment about which that user was complaining. Later in the day I learned how to see all of my comments by studying my profile. The comment I was criticized for was my second comment on Hacker News. Whether the other user's criticism was appropriate or not, I got downvoted by at least a few other people after I apologized. My sense of this situation, therefore, is that the progressive rights systems that give additional rights to users with previous contributions disadvantage new users. The awarding of points to certain comments by other users and its connection to enhanced rights on Hacker News and other websites such as the Stack Exchange websites encourages certain behaviors that may not be entirely good for the culture of the sites themselves.
  - Noumenon72 8y ago
    You have a pretty good reaction to criticism. You could have gotten the comment on your second post because that was the final one they read, and finished forming their opinion.
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    Hi there, and welcome to HN! As a newcomer, you're just learning the culture of the place. This happens through interaction. Sometimes, unfortunately, that interaction is confrontational. In this case, I'll give you the ultimate lesson: HN tolerates - even encourages - comments promoting your own work, as long as it's directly relevant to the discussion (or in text posts starting with "Show HN", which are meant for "I made something, please take a look and give feedback" posting). You most likely got downvoted because your comment triggered a "looks like spam" warning light in minds of some people. If there is a connection between the product and the topic that adds something to the discussion, stating it clearly usually helps. > the progressive rights systems that give additional rights to users with previous contributions disadvantage new users. > The awarding of points to certain comments by other users and its connection to enhanced rights on Hacker News and other websites such as the Stack Exchange websites encourages certain behaviors that may not be entirely good for the culture of the sites themselves. Here's the thing though - this system exists for a reason, namely spam/trolling prevention. Systems both here and on StackOverflow sort posts by points, and allow anyone to create an account. Basing user privileges on amount of site karma is a very effective way of preventing automated attacks on the voting system. It's also pretty natural. In almost any community, you usually don't get full rights until you've had time to familiarize yourself with it and contributed something to it. Communities are made of other people. As much as a newcomer wants to feel recognized, the community wants a proof that the newcomer can be trusted.
    - dave_aiello 8y ago
      I guess that my biggest concern is that allowing a newcomer to be repeatedly downvoted and having this effect their karma could be dispiriting to a real person who is trying to participate and learn. I think so far I’m lucky to have only been downvoted a few times. Is it possible for users to have negative karma, and what happens in that event?

rubatuga 8y ago

Why do you think many tech communities move towards this style of conversation? I’m trying to hypothesize a few reasons, but it could be an emergent phenomena from individual elitism, competition, or maybe ladder kicking. But I agree, this will turn away newcomers. Maybe that’s their goal?

dave_aiello 8y ago
I'm a newcomer to Hacker News, but I have been a user of Stack Overflow and, more generally, Stack Exchange for some time. So perhaps I can still speak about the experience of a newcomer. In my experience, neither site suffers fools gladly. This morning I made a comment on a post on the first page of Hacker News. In it, I made reference to a project that I am working on independently. A more senior user of Hacker News read my comment, considered it self-serving, and primarily a reference to my product. Then, he downvoted my comment (something I cannot do as a newcomer), looked at my other comments (something I didn't know how to do until later), and left a comment saying that nearly all of my comments on this site referenced my project and weren't substantively about the articles where they appeared. As soon as I saw this comment I apologized, and said I wished that I could delete my comment about which that user was complaining. Later in the day I learned how to see all of my comments by studying my profile. The comment I was criticized for was my second comment on Hacker News. Whether the other user's criticism was appropriate or not, I got downvoted by at least a few other people after I apologized. My sense of this situation, therefore, is that the progressive rights systems that give additional rights to users with previous contributions disadvantage new users. The awarding of points to certain comments by other users and its connection to enhanced rights on Hacker News and other websites such as the Stack Exchange websites encourages certain behaviors that may not be entirely good for the culture of the sites themselves.
- Noumenon72 8y ago
  You have a pretty good reaction to criticism. You could have gotten the comment on your second post because that was the final one they read, and finished forming their opinion.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  Hi there, and welcome to HN! As a newcomer, you're just learning the culture of the place. This happens through interaction. Sometimes, unfortunately, that interaction is confrontational. In this case, I'll give you the ultimate lesson: HN tolerates - even encourages - comments promoting your own work, as long as it's directly relevant to the discussion (or in text posts starting with "Show HN", which are meant for "I made something, please take a look and give feedback" posting). You most likely got downvoted because your comment triggered a "looks like spam" warning light in minds of some people. If there is a connection between the product and the topic that adds something to the discussion, stating it clearly usually helps. > the progressive rights systems that give additional rights to users with previous contributions disadvantage new users. > The awarding of points to certain comments by other users and its connection to enhanced rights on Hacker News and other websites such as the Stack Exchange websites encourages certain behaviors that may not be entirely good for the culture of the sites themselves. Here's the thing though - this system exists for a reason, namely spam/trolling prevention. Systems both here and on StackOverflow sort posts by points, and allow anyone to create an account. Basing user privileges on amount of site karma is a very effective way of preventing automated attacks on the voting system. It's also pretty natural. In almost any community, you usually don't get full rights until you've had time to familiarize yourself with it and contributed something to it. Communities are made of other people. As much as a newcomer wants to feel recognized, the community wants a proof that the newcomer can be trusted.
  - dave_aiello 8y ago
    I guess that my biggest concern is that allowing a newcomer to be repeatedly downvoted and having this effect their karma could be dispiriting to a real person who is trying to participate and learn. I think so far I’m lucky to have only been downvoted a few times. Is it possible for users to have negative karma, and what happens in that event?