4 ms·

So I take on board a lot of your points and also minded that there comes a point in all this where perhaps we're only going to get so close to agreeing. To deb

by dotBen 16y ago

So I take on board a lot of your points and also minded that there comes a point in all this where perhaps we're only going to get so close to agreeing. To debate this much more probably offers diminishing returns. Two comments though if I may: Your point on ...that won't get you anywhere until you're willing to take it to a judge [in the local country]. While you might be right on one hand, if we conducted our life based on that then many things in life would be curtailed. I don't have the resources to visit Canada to visit court if I needed be, does that mean I shouldn't sell my stuff on eBay to someone in Canada? I want to visit Japan for vacation but I don't have the resource to go to court for damages if the hotel doesn't honor my booking - do I therefore not visit Japan? I like to buy books and stuff from Amazon but I don't really have the resources or inclination to go to court in Washington State (3 hrs flight away) if they run off with my money and don't send me my stuff. Does that mean I don't buy things from Amazon.com? I want to rent an apartment here in San Francisco but I don't really have the resources or inclination to go to court if the landlord takes my deposit - does that mean I shouldn't rent here? etc. Do you REALLY think everyone who buys .ly domains is prepared to go to Libyan court (including bit.ly?). Other way around, do you think everyone who registers a .com/net/org is prepared to go to US federal court? It's also interesting that you assume I'm American, as you've made several references to that in my post. I'm actually British, spent most of my adult life living in one of the most populated Islamic areas of London and indeed the UK (Bethnal Green, East London) and I've read most of the Qur'an as part of my education (not the case for education here in the US, as it happens). I've extensively traveled through many Islamic countries. I'm pretty aware of what Islam thinks is right or not based on it's views of decency and I actually thought we were careful to navigate around that based on what the NIC.ly regulations said they would (and wouldn't) regulate around. The point is that I don't think Islam or Libya for that matter is some crooked society where the rules of law are malleable as you make out. Perhaps on that last point I am wrong.

jacquesm 16y ago
> Do you REALLY think everyone who buys .ly domains is prepared to go to Libyan court (including bit.ly?) No, but that you don't go to court in general is taken to mean that either you don't care enough about the issue, that you consider your chances weak or that you feel that you can spend your time better, or any combination of that. You could go to court, challenge their decision and maybe it would go your way. I personally don't believe it is worth the effort, if you have other ways of resurrecting your website then I would concentrate on that instead. I've gone to court abroad several times and have won in each of those cases, I cared enough that I thought a lawsuit was warranted and even though it cost me plenty I think it was well worth it. I figured my chances were good, and that of course factored in there as well. Going to court on principle is an expensive hobby. > It's also interesting that you assume I'm American, as you've made several references to that in my post. I tried to stay away from that and tried to use 'western' as a stand in, so if I slipped up then my apologies, HN is quite US centric and at times it feels like the people from other countries here are a serious minority. Especially around US election time. And you do live in San Francisco, so for now at least you seem to be part of the US more than of the UK, so maybe that would not have been such a bad assumption after all ;) > The point is that I don't think Islam or Libya for that matter is some crooked society where the rules of law are malleable as you make out. Perhaps on that last point I am wrong. I think their laws are not 'malleable' per se, I think that expecting a Western attitude towards the law in non-Western countries is simply not the right thing to do. We are very 'straight lined', we believe in logic in all its glory and we like things to be clear. Non-Western societies are much more arranged around customs and the things that are 'not said'. For them to spell out that this is not permitted is possibly already maneuvering them in to a corner where they'd rather not be.

by dotBen 16y ago

jacquesm 16y ago

> Do you REALLY think everyone who buys .ly domains is prepared to go to Libyan court (including bit.ly?) No, but that you don't go to court in general is taken to mean that either you don't care enough about the issue, that you consider your chances weak or that you feel that you can spend your time better, or any combination of that. You could go to court, challenge their decision and maybe it would go your way. I personally don't believe it is worth the effort, if you have other ways of resurrecting your website then I would concentrate on that instead. I've gone to court abroad several times and have won in each of those cases, I cared enough that I thought a lawsuit was warranted and even though it cost me plenty I think it was well worth it. I figured my chances were good, and that of course factored in there as well. Going to court on principle is an expensive hobby. > It's also interesting that you assume I'm American, as you've made several references to that in my post. I tried to stay away from that and tried to use 'western' as a stand in, so if I slipped up then my apologies, HN is quite US centric and at times it feels like the people from other countries here are a serious minority. Especially around US election time. And you do live in San Francisco, so for now at least you seem to be part of the US more than of the UK, so maybe that would not have been such a bad assumption after all ;) > The point is that I don't think Islam or Libya for that matter is some crooked society where the rules of law are malleable as you make out. Perhaps on that last point I am wrong. I think their laws are not 'malleable' per se, I think that expecting a Western attitude towards the law in non-Western countries is simply not the right thing to do. We are very 'straight lined', we believe in logic in all its glory and we like things to be clear. Non-Western societies are much more arranged around customs and the things that are 'not said'. For them to spell out that this is not permitted is possibly already maneuvering them in to a corner where they'd rather not be.