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Inmates ... are allowed to volunteer for the firefighting program and are trained for two weeks in fire safety... Once the exam is passed, prisoners are sent to

Inmates ... are allowed to volunteer for the firefighting program and are trained for two weeks in fire safety... Once the exam is passed, prisoners are sent to live in one of 43 low-security field camps throughout the state. Inmates do recognize that there are perks to the job. Their outdoor camps allow for more freedom. The food is better and grown in on-site gardens. Families are allowed to use barbecue pits for their visits and can often spend the night in nearby cabins. It's voluntary, gives inmates a change to spend outside time in low security environments (potentially seeing family), gives them a break from monotonous prison environments AND gives them 2 days off their sentence for every one day served. Not sure how this voluntary labor with significant benefits for an inmate is equivalent to slavery.

zapita 8y ago
> It's voluntary and gives inmates a chance to [...] Bullshit. Nothing is truly voluntary when you are in a situation of such extreme power imbalance. Other things that are voluntary in name only: pleading guilty because the DA made you an "offer you can't refuse"; working in a prison-run sweatshop for a fraction of minimum wage; buying basic necessity goods at a huge premium from the prison store. > Not sure how this voluntary labor is any worse than involuntary community service. You are correct, they are equally terrible.
- joshuawright11 8y ago
  I mean, should there be an equal power balance in prisons...?
  - zapita 8y ago
    > I mean, should there be an equal power balance in prisons...? I think a better question is "should inmates be protected from the risk of abuse created by extreme power imbalance? And if so, where do we draw the line as a society?". My answer to the first question is yes, they should be protected. My answer to the second question is: respecting the universal declaration of Human Rights and the US constitution would be a great start.
    - will_brown 8y ago
      It’s voluntary...they receive training, see family, get time knocked off, serve the community/others. Dare I say it actually sounds like a rehabilitation program. Of course it’s very easy to criticize on a forum behind a screen. So tell us how you have personally helped a prisoner combat the extreme power imbalance you observe beyond criticizing existing programs.
      - zapita 8y ago
        > Of course it’s very easy to criticize on a forum behind a screen. So tell us how you have personally helped a prisoner combat the extreme power imbalance you observe beyond criticizing existing programs. Yes, it's very easy to criticize behind a screen. In some cases, people who do it too much even develop an extreme sense of entitlement, and start acting like the world owes them a response to even the most ridiculous demands. Although I have noticed that it's mostly white men who develop this issue - excessive entitlement is a common side effect of excessive privilege.
        traverseda 8y ago
        Regardless of anything else, I don't think that kind of casual racism is going to make anything better.
        zapita 8y ago
        Ah yes, pointing out the existence of a privilege system built on racism, and a relationship between privilege and entitlement - the hallmarks of casual racism!
        traverseda 8y ago
        Well no, it's mostly how someone started by asking you a question (in a slightly rude way in my opinion), and you immediately found a way to work in how they're a terrible person, and how they're probably a terrible person on account of being white. This isn't a "white fragility, white people can't handle hearing about privilege" deal, it's a you deal, where you specifically are using race-based stereotypes to dismiss and dehumanize your fellow human beings.
colinbartlett 8y ago
I used to be a volunteer firefighter and really enjoyed the work. I was not an inmate, nor do I see a distinction here. Thousands of civilians risk their lives every day for $0/day fighting fires.
willio58 8y ago
AND might give some inmates a sense that while the government did put them in prison to begin with, government isn’t just there to hurt you. The government also provides services that directly benefit those in the society. AND, maybe they will want to pursue becoming firefighters or other similar jobs once they leave prison.
Karishma1234 8y ago
If its voluntary then I am not sure what is there to complain about. Of course some people argue that if the prison was not such a fucked up place many of them would not opt for this service and there is a power imbalance, but then would it be any better if they were offered $50 per hour ? Personally I dislike the idea of first putting in jail and making them work for free to see the outside world. It is essentially asking for a bribe (in the form of free labour) to see the outside world. How about this ? Say an inmate agrees to pay daily wages of a real professional firefighter and in return state lets him go home and spend time with family are we going to be okay with this ?

zapita 8y ago

> It's voluntary and gives inmates a chance to [...] Bullshit. Nothing is truly voluntary when you are in a situation of such extreme power imbalance. Other things that are voluntary in name only: pleading guilty because the DA made you an "offer you can't refuse"; working in a prison-run sweatshop for a fraction of minimum wage; buying basic necessity goods at a huge premium from the prison store. > Not sure how this voluntary labor is any worse than involuntary community service. You are correct, they are equally terrible.

joshuawright11 8y ago
I mean, should there be an equal power balance in prisons...?
- zapita 8y ago
  > I mean, should there be an equal power balance in prisons...? I think a better question is "should inmates be protected from the risk of abuse created by extreme power imbalance? And if so, where do we draw the line as a society?". My answer to the first question is yes, they should be protected. My answer to the second question is: respecting the universal declaration of Human Rights and the US constitution would be a great start.
  - will_brown 8y ago
    It’s voluntary...they receive training, see family, get time knocked off, serve the community/others. Dare I say it actually sounds like a rehabilitation program. Of course it’s very easy to criticize on a forum behind a screen. So tell us how you have personally helped a prisoner combat the extreme power imbalance you observe beyond criticizing existing programs.
    - zapita 8y ago
      > Of course it’s very easy to criticize on a forum behind a screen. So tell us how you have personally helped a prisoner combat the extreme power imbalance you observe beyond criticizing existing programs. Yes, it's very easy to criticize behind a screen. In some cases, people who do it too much even develop an extreme sense of entitlement, and start acting like the world owes them a response to even the most ridiculous demands. Although I have noticed that it's mostly white men who develop this issue - excessive entitlement is a common side effect of excessive privilege.
      - traverseda 8y ago
        Regardless of anything else, I don't think that kind of casual racism is going to make anything better.
        zapita 8y ago
        Ah yes, pointing out the existence of a privilege system built on racism, and a relationship between privilege and entitlement - the hallmarks of casual racism!
        traverseda 8y ago
        Well no, it's mostly how someone started by asking you a question (in a slightly rude way in my opinion), and you immediately found a way to work in how they're a terrible person, and how they're probably a terrible person on account of being white. This isn't a "white fragility, white people can't handle hearing about privilege" deal, it's a you deal, where you specifically are using race-based stereotypes to dismiss and dehumanize your fellow human beings.

colinbartlett 8y ago

I used to be a volunteer firefighter and really enjoyed the work. I was not an inmate, nor do I see a distinction here. Thousands of civilians risk their lives every day for $0/day fighting fires.

willio58 8y ago

AND might give some inmates a sense that while the government did put them in prison to begin with, government isn’t just there to hurt you. The government also provides services that directly benefit those in the society. AND, maybe they will want to pursue becoming firefighters or other similar jobs once they leave prison.

Karishma1234 8y ago

If its voluntary then I am not sure what is there to complain about. Of course some people argue that if the prison was not such a fucked up place many of them would not opt for this service and there is a power imbalance, but then would it be any better if they were offered $50 per hour ? Personally I dislike the idea of first putting in jail and making them work for free to see the outside world. It is essentially asking for a bribe (in the form of free labour) to see the outside world. How about this ? Say an inmate agrees to pay daily wages of a real professional firefighter and in return state lets him go home and spend time with family are we going to be okay with this ?