5 ms·

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Brazil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Brazil "Thus, disarmament is effectively happening in Brazil,[12] as

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Brazil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Brazil "Thus, disarmament is effectively happening in Brazil,[12] as are massive gun confiscations,[13] notwithstanding its refusal by Brazilian people (at the referendum of 2005). Some argue that this will increase gun homicides. Other research shows that there is a decrease in firearm deaths correlating with disarmament.[14][15] However, 2012 marked the highest rate of gun deaths in 35 years for Brazil, 8 years after a ban on carrying handguns in public went in to effect,[16] and 2016 saw the worst ever death toll from homicide in Brazil, with 61,619 dead.[17] Only to rise again in 2017 to 63,880 a 3.7 per cent rise from 2016. [18] " Doesn't seem like the gun laws are working out.

briandear 8y ago
Venenzuela fully “disarmed” in 2013. And the murder rate went up significantly. Mexico is also “disarmed” and their murder rate is sky high. There is no correlation to gun disarming and crime rate reduction. The problems aren’t caused by guns, but by disfunctional governments.
- frockington 8y ago
  Even in America your point stands. Chicago and LA have strict gun laws and out of control crime
Retric 8y ago
Brazil's population is growing, so it's really the rate of violence especially for 15-35 year olds that's important. However, all current and past statistics are questionable making assessment difficult.
morsma 8y ago
Lowering crime rates has never really been the goal of gun confiscation.
dudus 8y ago
I don't want to dismiss your point, when it comes to gun control I don't really have a strong opinion, I see both sides. But I wouldn't simply put these numbers in direct correlation with gun control. There are other factors that are much more important than gun control changes such as the political crisis, economical crisis and rise in gang violence filled by drug dollars.
gldalmaso 8y ago
Most guns used in crime in Brazil are in the hands of criminals (usually traffic) and militia (which is just different criminals with ties to the police). They wouldn't exactly be purchasing those guns with their ids. A lot of it comes from the police and the army. Gun laws protect civilians against civilians. There are no school shootings here that I'm aware of for instance (exceptions are usually targeted events), despite all the other violence. Homicides in Brazil are only investigated for upper class victims. Violence against marginalized communities are mostly shrugged off if not outright desired by part of the conservative populace. They take pride in saying "bandido bom é bandido morto" (good thief is a dead thief) and revel in the fact that our police is responsible for countless deaths and executions without any shroud of due process. IMO the only viable solution is for marginalized people to have true opportunity other than slave wages or a short career in drug trafficking. However since 2016 we are set on the opposite direction, so expect violence to increase with up to 40 mil new unemployed people and no budget to speak of for welfare, education and health.
- ransom1538 8y ago
  "There are no school shootings here that I'm aware of " (Referring to brazil). Here is an entire list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Brazil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Brazil
  - lhorie 8y ago
    Most of those are not school shootings. Here's a more comprehensive list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_massacres_by_death_toll https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_massacres_by_de... As you can see, the vast vast majority of school shootings occur in the US, with China coming in at a distant 2nd place. There are only 4 school massacres in Brazil (of which only 2 involve a gun according to wikipedia), and Brazil is a country with a population of more than 200 million. Gun violence in Brazil has historically been rampant, but school shootings there are in fact _extremely_ rare.
  - slig 8y ago
    Eleven of 13 of that list are not related to schools.
baybal2 8y ago
One counterexample - Pakistan. Gun ownership is legal with a license. No legal discrimination of automatic/non-automatic weapons (though there is a never ending tragicomedy in national assembly over enacting automatic arms prohibition.) Province of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa famously licenses private ownership of artillery pieces. Yet, gun crime is the last issue one cares about here. A man with a steel pipe on a dark alley is by far a bigger threat. Most robberies are done by people in terminal stages of economic marginalisation. And for the few people who have more things to steal from than their immediate personal possessions here, a bigger threat is abduction. But there is virtually nothing like "a random guy assaults another random guy in the streets"
matheusmoreira 8y ago
They aren't. Acquiring a firearm legally is a ridiculously bureaucratic process where you must submit to psychological evaluations by the military and "justify" your "need" to own a gun. If you manage to get approved by that long process, your reward is an extremely limited selection of revolvers chambered in weak calibers that you can't carry with you outside your home or place of work. The weapon must be registered in a military database and tied to your name and those soldiers can suddenly decide to drop by and inspect your gear. There is a limit to how much ammunition you can purchase per year, so the only way you can practice with the guns is by making your own rounds. You can't even transport your weapon from place to place without notifying them and acquiring some kind of permit. Alternatively, you can become a gun collector who can own everything but can't legally fire any of the weapons, not even for practice. Criminals don't care about gun laws. They just purchase weapons from the black market, no background check or psychological evaluations or anything. Burglars used to consider the risks before breaking into a home, but now they're sure they will be unopposed. Drug traffickers are much better armed than the police force that ought to stop them and have become so powerful in their domains they could be considered parallel states, with laws, judges and everything. Ironically, they often stop smaller crimes like robbery from happening because not having a safe environment for people to buy drugs in hurts their profits; photos of graffiti messages warning criminals they'll be killed if they get caught robbing people can be found on the internet. The entire disarmament thing assumes the police will do their jobs and keep people safe, but the police won't even enter these areas because they're outmanned and outgunned. That's why the government felt the need to use the military in order to regain control of Rio de Janeiro. They used armored vehicles to fight against people who are technically citizens of their own country. Don't ever let the government take your guns away.
- wishinghand 8y ago
  If the police are refusing to do their job, that sounds like a bigger problem. Professionals trained in firearm usage and gang suppression would be far more effective than a disparate group of individuals owning a non-revolving pistol and shotgun. England doesn’t have this problem despite having very restrictive laws.
  - 8y ago

briandear 8y ago

Venenzuela fully “disarmed” in 2013. And the murder rate went up significantly. Mexico is also “disarmed” and their murder rate is sky high. There is no correlation to gun disarming and crime rate reduction. The problems aren’t caused by guns, but by disfunctional governments.

frockington 8y ago
Even in America your point stands. Chicago and LA have strict gun laws and out of control crime

Retric 8y ago

Brazil's population is growing, so it's really the rate of violence especially for 15-35 year olds that's important. However, all current and past statistics are questionable making assessment difficult.

morsma 8y ago

Lowering crime rates has never really been the goal of gun confiscation.

dudus 8y ago

I don't want to dismiss your point, when it comes to gun control I don't really have a strong opinion, I see both sides. But I wouldn't simply put these numbers in direct correlation with gun control. There are other factors that are much more important than gun control changes such as the political crisis, economical crisis and rise in gang violence filled by drug dollars.

gldalmaso 8y ago

Most guns used in crime in Brazil are in the hands of criminals (usually traffic) and militia (which is just different criminals with ties to the police). They wouldn't exactly be purchasing those guns with their ids. A lot of it comes from the police and the army. Gun laws protect civilians against civilians. There are no school shootings here that I'm aware of for instance (exceptions are usually targeted events), despite all the other violence. Homicides in Brazil are only investigated for upper class victims. Violence against marginalized communities are mostly shrugged off if not outright desired by part of the conservative populace. They take pride in saying "bandido bom é bandido morto" (good thief is a dead thief) and revel in the fact that our police is responsible for countless deaths and executions without any shroud of due process. IMO the only viable solution is for marginalized people to have true opportunity other than slave wages or a short career in drug trafficking. However since 2016 we are set on the opposite direction, so expect violence to increase with up to 40 mil new unemployed people and no budget to speak of for welfare, education and health.

ransom1538 8y ago
"There are no school shootings here that I'm aware of " (Referring to brazil). Here is an entire list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Brazil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Brazil
- lhorie 8y ago
  Most of those are not school shootings. Here's a more comprehensive list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_massacres_by_death_toll https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_massacres_by_de... As you can see, the vast vast majority of school shootings occur in the US, with China coming in at a distant 2nd place. There are only 4 school massacres in Brazil (of which only 2 involve a gun according to wikipedia), and Brazil is a country with a population of more than 200 million. Gun violence in Brazil has historically been rampant, but school shootings there are in fact _extremely_ rare.
- slig 8y ago
  Eleven of 13 of that list are not related to schools.

baybal2 8y ago

One counterexample - Pakistan. Gun ownership is legal with a license. No legal discrimination of automatic/non-automatic weapons (though there is a never ending tragicomedy in national assembly over enacting automatic arms prohibition.) Province of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa famously licenses private ownership of artillery pieces. Yet, gun crime is the last issue one cares about here. A man with a steel pipe on a dark alley is by far a bigger threat. Most robberies are done by people in terminal stages of economic marginalisation. And for the few people who have more things to steal from than their immediate personal possessions here, a bigger threat is abduction. But there is virtually nothing like "a random guy assaults another random guy in the streets"

matheusmoreira 8y ago

They aren't. Acquiring a firearm legally is a ridiculously bureaucratic process where you must submit to psychological evaluations by the military and "justify" your "need" to own a gun. If you manage to get approved by that long process, your reward is an extremely limited selection of revolvers chambered in weak calibers that you can't carry with you outside your home or place of work. The weapon must be registered in a military database and tied to your name and those soldiers can suddenly decide to drop by and inspect your gear. There is a limit to how much ammunition you can purchase per year, so the only way you can practice with the guns is by making your own rounds. You can't even transport your weapon from place to place without notifying them and acquiring some kind of permit. Alternatively, you can become a gun collector who can own everything but can't legally fire any of the weapons, not even for practice. Criminals don't care about gun laws. They just purchase weapons from the black market, no background check or psychological evaluations or anything. Burglars used to consider the risks before breaking into a home, but now they're sure they will be unopposed. Drug traffickers are much better armed than the police force that ought to stop them and have become so powerful in their domains they could be considered parallel states, with laws, judges and everything. Ironically, they often stop smaller crimes like robbery from happening because not having a safe environment for people to buy drugs in hurts their profits; photos of graffiti messages warning criminals they'll be killed if they get caught robbing people can be found on the internet. The entire disarmament thing assumes the police will do their jobs and keep people safe, but the police won't even enter these areas because they're outmanned and outgunned. That's why the government felt the need to use the military in order to regain control of Rio de Janeiro. They used armored vehicles to fight against people who are technically citizens of their own country. Don't ever let the government take your guns away.

wishinghand 8y ago
If the police are refusing to do their job, that sounds like a bigger problem. Professionals trained in firearm usage and gang suppression would be far more effective than a disparate group of individuals owning a non-revolving pistol and shotgun. England doesn’t have this problem despite having very restrictive laws.
- 8y ago