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Brazilian here. Our criminality numbers are _probably_ higher than the official numbers. The country is huge and diverse, but even the most pacific states and c

by rvr_ 8y ago

Brazilian here. Our criminality numbers are _probably_ higher than the official numbers. The country is huge and diverse, but even the most pacific states and cities are in a bad shape if compared to almost any other country. More than 70% of the deaths are related to gang conflicts. Drugs are not the only problem. We also have a lot of cargo/truck stealing, street-level robbery, an enormous black market of stolen mobile phones, etc. We have some affluent startup hubs, there are innovation in e-commerce, payments, banking, HR and many more, but our tech elite is complete out-of-sync with our major problem: violence. Maybe a fresh HN discussion can put some light on the issue.

MrEfficiency 8y ago
Whats this like for civilians that are not involved? I hear about the crime in my country, but it seems unreal to me because in my area you'd never know there were dozens of murders last weekend. Does this affect your life?
- goshx 8y ago
  You never know when you are going to be targeted, so you live in this constant fear. Ask anyone who lives in Brazil what they do if they see two guys in a motorcycle coming their way. I've been robbed at gun point; I've woken up with someone inside my bedroom stealing my laptop; I've been followed home; The bus from the public transport system I used to take was stopped by criminals and set on fire; and so on. It used to affect only the life of those living in the metropolitan areas, but now it is spreading. The main reason why I moved to the US was because I was living in such a state that I was always tense. When I was robbed at gun point I almost got shot because the guy thought I was too calm and suspected I was a cop. Living in the US I realized how much that was affecting my daily life and how life without worrying feels like. That's how it affects your life.
  - bennicholes 8y ago
    Where did you live in Brazil? As an American I visit the interior of São Paulo and Belo Horizonte often and have never experienced anything like this, nor does it seem my Brazilian friends live in constant anxiety.
    - jonathanjaeger 8y ago
      I went to Rio and São Paulo last year, and EVERYONE I met gave me constant warnings about being safe in Rio. I felt a lot more comfortable walking aimlessly around São Paulo than Rio, not because I saw anything bad, but because of the warnings and general feel.
    - goshx 8y ago
      In Florianópolis. It is a big island and it used to be very peaceful, until the work to "clean up" Rio's and Sao Paulo's slums was started in preparation for the World Cup and Olympic Games.
    - personlurking 8y ago
      Two of my experiences living in the interior: at a rather crowded county fair, a group of teens ran by and I thought nothing of it. They ran by again and I took another look and realized it was a group chasing one guy. And the guy from the group, closest to the one being chased, had a proper machete in his hand and was just about to put it into the back of the neck of the one being chased when the latter slipped on something, just enough to be able to regain balance and run away, while the rest chased him. Another time, I heard a ruckus from my room and looked out the window to see a group of about 20 men shouting. I had no idea what it could be about, but later realized it was a public lynching. That is, someone who either did something bad or was just thought to have done something bad, was caught by the group. Usually in these cases, there's no stopping the mob (from collectively beating the person to death). Despite my two comments in this thread about some of the negative aspects of living in Brazil, I was never robbed or anything. And, it goes without saying (or, perhaps it needs to be said), there are many reasons to love the country, culture and people. These very real extremes, of positivity and negativity, make it a confusing place to be.
    - mrisoli 8y ago
      I'm from Belo Horizonte and the constant anxiety is real, of course it's not a problem every moment but shows up in every situation. Waiting for the bus every day of the week for 15-30min, you're very exposed, and should be careful with your phone out, and some people learn your commute time, follow you, it's rare, but if you're not paying attention, it can happen. I personally used to(don't live there anymore) double check every corner I step into to make sure there's nothing suspicious. It's anecdotal of course but I've had three of my friends having their cellphone stolen in the same day, and at least one per day for a two week span. My parents moved into a gated community which is supposed to be safer, only to have their house robbed their first month there, robbers get in facilitated by the staff. I could go on with anecdotes for a long time, and just for the last year.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- gassiss 8y ago
  You get super paranoid. I've lived in Rio de Janeiro all my life, and I've never heard of anyone who either was never mugged or had someone very close that was (by someone close, I mean spouse, parent or child). I've seen three people being mugged in front of my place, and I don't live in a place locals would call "dangerous". But that's just me. Besides some common practices that have become instinct, like not using your phone outside and looking over your shoulder in desert places (or avoiding these places altogether), I think the majority of the population got numb to this situation and just accepted it like it is normal.
- personlurking 8y ago
  Not Brazilian but I used to live there. I'd say one of the main problems for the average citizen is the general uncertainty. When you leave your house to go out for the night, for example, you're planning your route based on what streets you're less likely to be robbed on. On TV, last year, a woman from Rio was being interviewed at the hospital and said "it used to be if you left your house, you didn't know if you'd be coming back. Now you don't even know if you'll get to where you're trying to go." Personally, and due to the mostly tropical weather, living in Brazil also means wearing simple clothes, nothing fancy (not that this was a derivation from my actual style). Some people apparently carry a stealable amount of money on them - possibly in a second wallet, in a place that can be easily reached for when/if held up. A few years ago, I saw a news report about the popularity of an anti-theft accessory for the back of one's cell phone, connected to a ring that goes on the user's finger, so that no one can run by and grab it. Though when confronted with someone who stops you and wants your phone, it's best to just give it to them, cause they could be not only armed but on drugs (ex. sniffing glue). Plus, if you do react, it's possible - depending on your location, like downtown or the beach - they have several friends nearby. Malls tend to be the de facto "public space" where teens hang out, due to a lack of actual safe public spaces. I'm sure I could say a lot more but those are some general thoughts that come to mind. Most of my years in Brazil were spent in Rio, fyi.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  I know a German guy who married a Brazilian wife and moved to Brazil to run a pharmacy. They came back after two years because they couldn't take it anymore. There were a ton of street robberies and store break-ins so they never felt safe. It must be real bad and hard to escape the violence unless you are rich and live in gated communities.
- rvr_ 8y ago
  I live in Florianopolis, the capital of one of the best state to live in Brazil (Santa Catarina). I have been robbed three times. Even people who have never been a victim will have the same feeling. Burglars are seen (and effectively are) potential murders. Every now and then someone is catch by security cameras being shot during an armed assault for meaningless reasons, such as the criminal not liking your face, not liking your possessions or discovering that you work for/is a policemen.
cust0m 8y ago
how do you forgot the bank robery?
- rvr_ 8y ago
  Well remembered. We have a whole ATM-exploding business in Brazil. Haven't heard of anything similar elsewhere in the world.
  - tinco 8y ago
    Exploding ATM's is also a problem in The Netherlands. It is probably a thing everywhere, I've been to ATM's in the US where you have to go through a glass door before you can get to the ATM, I think for this reason.
malandrew 8y ago
Brazilian here as well. We have all those problems because there is a lack of opportunity for real growth. Most violence in the country is economically motivated (muggings and carjackings). Under the last three administrations, the government focused on handouts instead of investing in infrastructure (rail, ports, etc.). The handouts got so bad with no additional revenue that the government was becoming insolvent and the rating agencies downgraded the country. The first downgrade was a shot across the bow, but when the second downgrade happened, many international institutional investors had a legal requirement to liquidate their investments and vacate the country. At that point investments dried up and growth slowed to a crawl. The PT is a cancer in the country and has set the country back 10-20 years at least.
mnm1 8y ago
Have you guys tried legalizing drugs yet? I don't mean decriminalizing small quantities of weed or even legalizing weed like Uruguay. I mean full out legalization with legal stores everywhere and legal pipelines. To me that's the giant elephant in the room, the clearly obvious solution. Not to mention all the things that tax money could go to. Now drug manufacturers, transporters, and dealers don't have to resort to violence and you can use the money to improve everyone's lives. Sure, the US might be pissy for a bit, but you can have some balls and stand up to our stupid, crumbling empire, or you can just keep going on the way things have been for decades: more violence, more incarcerations, more of the same shit that doesn't work.
rqs 8y ago
Resolving violence problem is hard. If the government is not onboard with you, technology is almost useless. Assuming your government (the justice department at least) still functioning, electronic banking transaction MAY actually reduce random street robberies. Because those kind of transaction will almost certainly leaves some kind of trace behind, which gives law enforcement a chance to discover illegal activities.

by rvr_ 8y ago

MrEfficiency 8y ago

Whats this like for civilians that are not involved? I hear about the crime in my country, but it seems unreal to me because in my area you'd never know there were dozens of murders last weekend. Does this affect your life?

goshx 8y ago
You never know when you are going to be targeted, so you live in this constant fear. Ask anyone who lives in Brazil what they do if they see two guys in a motorcycle coming their way. I've been robbed at gun point; I've woken up with someone inside my bedroom stealing my laptop; I've been followed home; The bus from the public transport system I used to take was stopped by criminals and set on fire; and so on. It used to affect only the life of those living in the metropolitan areas, but now it is spreading. The main reason why I moved to the US was because I was living in such a state that I was always tense. When I was robbed at gun point I almost got shot because the guy thought I was too calm and suspected I was a cop. Living in the US I realized how much that was affecting my daily life and how life without worrying feels like. That's how it affects your life.
- bennicholes 8y ago
  Where did you live in Brazil? As an American I visit the interior of São Paulo and Belo Horizonte often and have never experienced anything like this, nor does it seem my Brazilian friends live in constant anxiety.
  - jonathanjaeger 8y ago
    I went to Rio and São Paulo last year, and EVERYONE I met gave me constant warnings about being safe in Rio. I felt a lot more comfortable walking aimlessly around São Paulo than Rio, not because I saw anything bad, but because of the warnings and general feel.
  - goshx 8y ago
    In Florianópolis. It is a big island and it used to be very peaceful, until the work to "clean up" Rio's and Sao Paulo's slums was started in preparation for the World Cup and Olympic Games.
  - personlurking 8y ago
    Two of my experiences living in the interior: at a rather crowded county fair, a group of teens ran by and I thought nothing of it. They ran by again and I took another look and realized it was a group chasing one guy. And the guy from the group, closest to the one being chased, had a proper machete in his hand and was just about to put it into the back of the neck of the one being chased when the latter slipped on something, just enough to be able to regain balance and run away, while the rest chased him. Another time, I heard a ruckus from my room and looked out the window to see a group of about 20 men shouting. I had no idea what it could be about, but later realized it was a public lynching. That is, someone who either did something bad or was just thought to have done something bad, was caught by the group. Usually in these cases, there's no stopping the mob (from collectively beating the person to death). Despite my two comments in this thread about some of the negative aspects of living in Brazil, I was never robbed or anything. And, it goes without saying (or, perhaps it needs to be said), there are many reasons to love the country, culture and people. These very real extremes, of positivity and negativity, make it a confusing place to be.
  - mrisoli 8y ago
    I'm from Belo Horizonte and the constant anxiety is real, of course it's not a problem every moment but shows up in every situation. Waiting for the bus every day of the week for 15-30min, you're very exposed, and should be careful with your phone out, and some people learn your commute time, follow you, it's rare, but if you're not paying attention, it can happen. I personally used to(don't live there anymore) double check every corner I step into to make sure there's nothing suspicious. It's anecdotal of course but I've had three of my friends having their cellphone stolen in the same day, and at least one per day for a two week span. My parents moved into a gated community which is supposed to be safer, only to have their house robbed their first month there, robbers get in facilitated by the staff. I could go on with anecdotes for a long time, and just for the last year.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
gassiss 8y ago
You get super paranoid. I've lived in Rio de Janeiro all my life, and I've never heard of anyone who either was never mugged or had someone very close that was (by someone close, I mean spouse, parent or child). I've seen three people being mugged in front of my place, and I don't live in a place locals would call "dangerous". But that's just me. Besides some common practices that have become instinct, like not using your phone outside and looking over your shoulder in desert places (or avoiding these places altogether), I think the majority of the population got numb to this situation and just accepted it like it is normal.
personlurking 8y ago
Not Brazilian but I used to live there. I'd say one of the main problems for the average citizen is the general uncertainty. When you leave your house to go out for the night, for example, you're planning your route based on what streets you're less likely to be robbed on. On TV, last year, a woman from Rio was being interviewed at the hospital and said "it used to be if you left your house, you didn't know if you'd be coming back. Now you don't even know if you'll get to where you're trying to go." Personally, and due to the mostly tropical weather, living in Brazil also means wearing simple clothes, nothing fancy (not that this was a derivation from my actual style). Some people apparently carry a stealable amount of money on them - possibly in a second wallet, in a place that can be easily reached for when/if held up. A few years ago, I saw a news report about the popularity of an anti-theft accessory for the back of one's cell phone, connected to a ring that goes on the user's finger, so that no one can run by and grab it. Though when confronted with someone who stops you and wants your phone, it's best to just give it to them, cause they could be not only armed but on drugs (ex. sniffing glue). Plus, if you do react, it's possible - depending on your location, like downtown or the beach - they have several friends nearby. Malls tend to be the de facto "public space" where teens hang out, due to a lack of actual safe public spaces. I'm sure I could say a lot more but those are some general thoughts that come to mind. Most of my years in Brazil were spent in Rio, fyi.
maxxxxx 8y ago
I know a German guy who married a Brazilian wife and moved to Brazil to run a pharmacy. They came back after two years because they couldn't take it anymore. There were a ton of street robberies and store break-ins so they never felt safe. It must be real bad and hard to escape the violence unless you are rich and live in gated communities.
rvr_ 8y ago
I live in Florianopolis, the capital of one of the best state to live in Brazil (Santa Catarina). I have been robbed three times. Even people who have never been a victim will have the same feeling. Burglars are seen (and effectively are) potential murders. Every now and then someone is catch by security cameras being shot during an armed assault for meaningless reasons, such as the criminal not liking your face, not liking your possessions or discovering that you work for/is a policemen.

cust0m 8y ago

how do you forgot the bank robery?

rvr_ 8y ago
Well remembered. We have a whole ATM-exploding business in Brazil. Haven't heard of anything similar elsewhere in the world.
- tinco 8y ago
  Exploding ATM's is also a problem in The Netherlands. It is probably a thing everywhere, I've been to ATM's in the US where you have to go through a glass door before you can get to the ATM, I think for this reason.

malandrew 8y ago

Brazilian here as well. We have all those problems because there is a lack of opportunity for real growth. Most violence in the country is economically motivated (muggings and carjackings). Under the last three administrations, the government focused on handouts instead of investing in infrastructure (rail, ports, etc.). The handouts got so bad with no additional revenue that the government was becoming insolvent and the rating agencies downgraded the country. The first downgrade was a shot across the bow, but when the second downgrade happened, many international institutional investors had a legal requirement to liquidate their investments and vacate the country. At that point investments dried up and growth slowed to a crawl. The PT is a cancer in the country and has set the country back 10-20 years at least.

mnm1 8y ago

Have you guys tried legalizing drugs yet? I don't mean decriminalizing small quantities of weed or even legalizing weed like Uruguay. I mean full out legalization with legal stores everywhere and legal pipelines. To me that's the giant elephant in the room, the clearly obvious solution. Not to mention all the things that tax money could go to. Now drug manufacturers, transporters, and dealers don't have to resort to violence and you can use the money to improve everyone's lives. Sure, the US might be pissy for a bit, but you can have some balls and stand up to our stupid, crumbling empire, or you can just keep going on the way things have been for decades: more violence, more incarcerations, more of the same shit that doesn't work.

rqs 8y ago

Resolving violence problem is hard. If the government is not onboard with you, technology is almost useless. Assuming your government (the justice department at least) still functioning, electronic banking transaction MAY actually reduce random street robberies. Because those kind of transaction will almost certainly leaves some kind of trace behind, which gives law enforcement a chance to discover illegal activities.