4 ms·

Why doesn't the article talk about corn and meat subsidies. While meat by itself doesn't fuel obesity as much as carbs, most people typically pair with high fat

Why doesn't the article talk about corn and meat subsidies. While meat by itself doesn't fuel obesity as much as carbs, most people typically pair with high fat and high carb foods. The decision usually is between a cheap meat based meal and a non-meat based meal, and since meat is as cheap or cheaper than vegetables, it gets picked. Also, broccoli has more protein per calorie than beef.

tcfunk 8y ago
> Also, broccoli has more protein per calorie than beef. It looks like this might be a myth. I'd never heard this claim before so decided to do some googling. However, I am surprised to learn that broccoli has a substantial amount of protein, regardless of whether or not it's "more than beef".
- injb 8y ago
  You're right to be skeptical - statements like that ignore bioavailability. You won't absorb anything like 100% of the protein from broccoli.
  - mikehotel 8y ago
    Lower bioavailability in plant sources of protein does not seem to hinder their ability to help maintain positive nitrogen balance, a key to building muscle mass. Read https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/6686252/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/6686252/ Via https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo1ajCmi1jk&feature=share https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo1ajCmi1jk&feature=share
- Isamu 8y ago
  Could be the "per calorie" qualifier - you'd need to eat a large pile of broccoli, since beef often has a lot of calories in fat.
- saiya-jin 8y ago
  This is old vegetable-vs-animal proteins issue. Non-animal proteins don't contain all aminoacids for the human body to be able to absorb it. Only meat & diary products naturally do. What you can do, and vegetarians/vegans have been doing, is to pair it with another plant product that is also non-complete, but has a different composition of these amino acids. Mixed together, they end up providing some sort of complete protein (meaning you have to know what to mix with what, in what ratio). Or just mix it with some animal protein. That's why broccoli is dense with protein, but most if not all just goes through your body, depending what you consume it with. This is my fitness-guy understanding, please correct me if it's incorrect.
  - mikehotel 8y ago
    This may help improve your understanding. https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.cir.0000018905.97677.1f https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.cir.00000189...
    - appleiigs 8y ago
      to save people a click... "the results show that any single one or combination of these plant foods provides amino acid intakes in excess of the recommended requirements." "A vegetarian diet based on any single one or combination of these unprocessed starches (eg, rice, corn, potatoes, beans), with the addition of vegetables and fruits, supplies all the protein, amino acids, essential fats, minerals, and vitamins (with the exception of vitamin B12) necessary for excellent health"
  - will_brown 8y ago
    Hemp protein contains 20 amino acids and all 9 essential amino acids the body can’t produce.
randomdata 8y ago
Out of curiosity, what would it address? The corn subsidy is, of course, crop insurance (~60% paid for by the government, the rest by the user), which is also available for vegetables. The payouts for corn are the highest because of how much corn is grown, leading to a much greater chance of crop failure in a given year, and thus more money directed towards those claims. Vegetables are expensive because of not having realized the efficiencies of grain. Production of corn (and grains in general, and meat by extension) is almost entirely automated these days, while vegetables still require a fair amount of direct human involvement. Less efficient processes mean more cost to the consumer.
simonsarris 8y ago
Meat per se is awesome, many people living on only meat are quite slim, but sadly man Americans idea of meat is actually fried breaded corn with condiment levels of meat mixed in. Even "chicken nuggets" are < 40% meat. They should really be called bread nuggets or something. > high fat and high carb foods. > and since meat is as cheap or cheaper than vegetables I take issue lumping a lot of these things. Vegetables are not a significant source of calories in almost any diet by their nature, except vegetables like corn, potatoes, etc, which are definitely not helping Americans. Americans do not need starchy vegetables. They need eggs, meat (real meat!), cheese, quality yogurt like skyr, butter. Calorie dense, fatty food. Not bread and corn and rice, no matter the vegetables its paired with. If they ate well in the first place, whatever veggies they pair it with are rounding errors and I think a huge canard in dietary discussions.

tcfunk 8y ago

> Also, broccoli has more protein per calorie than beef. It looks like this might be a myth. I'd never heard this claim before so decided to do some googling. However, I am surprised to learn that broccoli has a substantial amount of protein, regardless of whether or not it's "more than beef".

injb 8y ago
You're right to be skeptical - statements like that ignore bioavailability. You won't absorb anything like 100% of the protein from broccoli.
- mikehotel 8y ago
  Lower bioavailability in plant sources of protein does not seem to hinder their ability to help maintain positive nitrogen balance, a key to building muscle mass. Read https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/6686252/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/6686252/ Via https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo1ajCmi1jk&feature=share https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo1ajCmi1jk&feature=share
Isamu 8y ago
Could be the "per calorie" qualifier - you'd need to eat a large pile of broccoli, since beef often has a lot of calories in fat.
saiya-jin 8y ago
This is old vegetable-vs-animal proteins issue. Non-animal proteins don't contain all aminoacids for the human body to be able to absorb it. Only meat & diary products naturally do. What you can do, and vegetarians/vegans have been doing, is to pair it with another plant product that is also non-complete, but has a different composition of these amino acids. Mixed together, they end up providing some sort of complete protein (meaning you have to know what to mix with what, in what ratio). Or just mix it with some animal protein. That's why broccoli is dense with protein, but most if not all just goes through your body, depending what you consume it with. This is my fitness-guy understanding, please correct me if it's incorrect.
- mikehotel 8y ago
  This may help improve your understanding. https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.cir.0000018905.97677.1f https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.cir.00000189...
  - appleiigs 8y ago
    to save people a click... "the results show that any single one or combination of these plant foods provides amino acid intakes in excess of the recommended requirements." "A vegetarian diet based on any single one or combination of these unprocessed starches (eg, rice, corn, potatoes, beans), with the addition of vegetables and fruits, supplies all the protein, amino acids, essential fats, minerals, and vitamins (with the exception of vitamin B12) necessary for excellent health"
- will_brown 8y ago
  Hemp protein contains 20 amino acids and all 9 essential amino acids the body can’t produce.

randomdata 8y ago

Out of curiosity, what would it address? The corn subsidy is, of course, crop insurance (~60% paid for by the government, the rest by the user), which is also available for vegetables. The payouts for corn are the highest because of how much corn is grown, leading to a much greater chance of crop failure in a given year, and thus more money directed towards those claims. Vegetables are expensive because of not having realized the efficiencies of grain. Production of corn (and grains in general, and meat by extension) is almost entirely automated these days, while vegetables still require a fair amount of direct human involvement. Less efficient processes mean more cost to the consumer.

simonsarris 8y ago

Meat per se is awesome, many people living on only meat are quite slim, but sadly man Americans idea of meat is actually fried breaded corn with condiment levels of meat mixed in. Even "chicken nuggets" are < 40% meat. They should really be called bread nuggets or something. > high fat and high carb foods. > and since meat is as cheap or cheaper than vegetables I take issue lumping a lot of these things. Vegetables are not a significant source of calories in almost any diet by their nature, except vegetables like corn, potatoes, etc, which are definitely not helping Americans. Americans do not need starchy vegetables. They need eggs, meat (real meat!), cheese, quality yogurt like skyr, butter. Calorie dense, fatty food. Not bread and corn and rice, no matter the vegetables its paired with. If they ate well in the first place, whatever veggies they pair it with are rounding errors and I think a huge canard in dietary discussions.