3 ms·

What lie?

by michaelfeathers 8y ago

What lie?

mcherm 8y ago
Stating that you need all that orange juice (which you don't actually need).
- bena 8y ago
  I'd focus less on the name of the test. It's a story that's being passed down from someone else to someone else. None of these people are booking banquet halls and asking about orange juice. The setup is kind of ridiculous and I suspect just a little bit made up just to give it a pithy name that makes people say "What's the orange juice test?" so you can go into this whole spiel about banquet halls. The core idea is sound: Don't work with people who either don't know what they're doing or try to make your decisions for you. But I wouldn't work with anybody calling it the orange juice test either, because it seems like something someone made up to feel smart by knowing arbitrary jargon.
  - IanPBann 8y ago
    Yes, the core idea of looking for someone who neither says they can do something difficult really simply nor says they can't do it is sound. It's the idea of requesting the contractor to give feedback on a task that you have no intention of having them complete that people (including me) are taking issue with. The title of the test is irrelevant - the test could easily be asking a contractor if they could develop an application that does abc in such-and-such a time-frame then turning round and telling them "I don't actually want an application that does that, I just wanted to see what you'd say".
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- michaelfeathers 8y ago
  Here's where I think you and others are missing something. Orange juice is in the hypothetical that they are discussing. There's nothing that says you have to make up a request. It can be a legitimate request, it just wasn't in the hypothetical. The key thing is whether the response is "that's impossible" or "you can have that for this price." In the anecdote, the businessman told Gerald that he'd already passed the test.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - feintruled 8y ago
    I don't think so.. it's definitely implied that you ask for something more than you need and then walk back from it. Like he says "“Oh you don’t really intend to have the breakfast. It’s just part of the test."
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]

What lie?

mcherm 8y ago

Stating that you need all that orange juice (which you don't actually need).

bena 8y ago
I'd focus less on the name of the test. It's a story that's being passed down from someone else to someone else. None of these people are booking banquet halls and asking about orange juice. The setup is kind of ridiculous and I suspect just a little bit made up just to give it a pithy name that makes people say "What's the orange juice test?" so you can go into this whole spiel about banquet halls. The core idea is sound: Don't work with people who either don't know what they're doing or try to make your decisions for you. But I wouldn't work with anybody calling it the orange juice test either, because it seems like something someone made up to feel smart by knowing arbitrary jargon.
- IanPBann 8y ago
  Yes, the core idea of looking for someone who neither says they can do something difficult really simply nor says they can't do it is sound. It's the idea of requesting the contractor to give feedback on a task that you have no intention of having them complete that people (including me) are taking issue with. The title of the test is irrelevant - the test could easily be asking a contractor if they could develop an application that does abc in such-and-such a time-frame then turning round and telling them "I don't actually want an application that does that, I just wanted to see what you'd say".
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
michaelfeathers 8y ago
Here's where I think you and others are missing something. Orange juice is in the hypothetical that they are discussing. There's nothing that says you have to make up a request. It can be a legitimate request, it just wasn't in the hypothetical. The key thing is whether the response is "that's impossible" or "you can have that for this price." In the anecdote, the businessman told Gerald that he'd already passed the test.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- feintruled 8y ago
  I don't think so.. it's definitely implied that you ask for something more than you need and then walk back from it. Like he says "“Oh you don’t really intend to have the breakfast. It’s just part of the test."
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]