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I know someone who has survived multiple suicide attempts, BPD, Bipolar, Clinical Depression, etc. They went through hell, had convulsive shock therapy, a decad

I know someone who has survived multiple suicide attempts, BPD, Bipolar, Clinical Depression, etc. They went through hell, had convulsive shock therapy, a decade of therapists and experimental drugs that could kill you. They now live a perfectly normal happy life. There is light at the end of the tunnel. There is so much good in this world it is worth all that and more to hang on and see it through. We should have headlines that read "Troubled 29-year-old helped to live by Dutch doctors" We should not embrace euthanasia we should embrace every individuals inherent worth, they deserve love not poison. I know exactly how people feel for them and say it is their right. Indeed it is the open door. It is always available, you need to simply walk through it. I would hope that we on this side of it would be begging people not to go rather than shoving them through it. It is no great thing to put someone to death, no matter how it makes us feel about it they will never have the chance to feel anything.

lockthrownaway 8y ago
Did they credit any particular treatment with their recovery?
- lootsauce 8y ago
  It is not worth getting into the details. CT did make a big impact. Ultimately it is very complicated and every case is unique. Edit: I would also add Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and group and talk therapy as well as ongoing engagement with professionals in general was essential.
PastaMonster 8y ago
How did you get better? Please be detailed.
- lootsauce 8y ago
  I can't completely speak for this person, a close relative. I don't and maybe she does not either, know exactly what it was that worked. It took a long time, many steps forward and backward. I would simply say seek professional help.
throwaway8879 8y ago
It's been just over a year since my last suicide attempt that left me in a coma for under a month and subsequently left me unable to use my legs. It's been a hard journey learning to walk again, and I did my first 20k steps this morning. My left pinky is a little numb, and I'm not sure if it's placebo but some of the feeling is coming back. And I'm excited to get back to playing Holdsworth licks again. Life is what it is. But I would prefer it if there was an easy and painless means to end one's life. Human right means nothing without the right to die without pain, and with dignity.
- lootsauce 8y ago
  I find that many if not most people on HN are atheists. I was for 35 years. No longer, that is long story for some other time but I will pray for you and hope that by the grace of God you recover and find true joy and peace in this life.
  - throwaway8879 8y ago
    Thank you, friend.
daveFNbuck 8y ago
I've always felt that euthanasia gives people a better chance by potentially turning a suicide attempt into a chance for medical intervention before it happens. How do you know that this is a net negative?
- lootsauce 8y ago
  With all sincerity it is based on logic and reason enlightened by faith. http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/end-of-life/euthanasia/index.cfm http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignit...
  - daveFNbuck 8y ago
    That page is just full of links, so I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be getting from it. Are you saying that you don't care whether the availability of euthanasia increases or decreases the death rate for people with psychological problems?
NeedMoreTea 8y ago
Yet for every story akin to this there is one of someone who's unable to get desired help, despite years of trying. Of mental health services that are unavailable or under-funded, or go through shit for most of their life. All the while living in countries that don't have euthanasia available, even for terminal cases. We are already "begging" people not to go - that leads to the efforts to turn it into a huge guilt trip as often practised by church dignitaries when discussing euthanasia - both in the specific or abstract. Also, as described in the article, they have to validate their state of mind with others first. Neither should we be shoving them through it. Can't we just accept that sometimes someone has actually had enough and let them make their own minds up? Their life might actually be shit, and it is they that have to live it. The fact that it rare enough to be headline worthy, yet the thousands of cases who go through a temporary acute crisis and hang or shoot themselves aren't speaks volumes don't you think?
- lootsauce 8y ago
  I know exactly how you feel, I get that argument. I choose to disagree on moral grounds. I know it is so easy to disregard my position. But here is just one thing to consider. It is far cheaper to provide assisted suicide than to provide social support, medical support and guidance. When we have all these baby boomers headed for infirmity and assisted living lacking the funds to pay for it, make no mistake. You will see suicide made out to be heroic, it will be lifted up. Death with dignity will be promoted with unassailable stories. But you will never hear of the lives, of those silenced ultimately because of an economic reality. We should choose to lift up life even when it hurts to affirm the great dignity of each person. Because an emotional story can become the authorization in a bureaucratic system to wipe people away to save money. http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/assisted-suicide/to-live-each-day/assisted-suicide-videos.cfm http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignit...
  - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
    No disregard of your personal position - I respect your right to choose your own outcome and hold life sacred for you and yours. I get uncomfortable when it's others imposing the belief that a life is "sacred". I might then be forced to die slowly, and extremely painfully, over some years having been diagnosed with terminal cancer. Having seen that with my father, though he received superb palliative care, no thank you. I've heard the killed for cost argument many times over the thirty or so years since it became a regular media topic in the UK. It;s roughly 20 since Netherlands legalised euthanasia, maybe more. The reality doesn't seem to bear any resemblance to your predictions; the vast majority in the Netherlands are still in favour of the law (over 90% I think), yet the numbers taking euthanasia are still low. The requirement for medical second and third opinions should prevent unpleasant relatives pushing granny under the bus or the state seeking to save cash. A universal healthcare system undoubtedly helps distance the patient from the cost implications. Even having passed all the the hurdles, with an advance directive completed beforehand, it's not guaranteed euthanasia will result. If you haven't completed an advance directive and are not in sound mind, it's simply not available. In other words it's not a policy decision, it's a personal and medical one.

lockthrownaway 8y ago

Did they credit any particular treatment with their recovery?

lootsauce 8y ago
It is not worth getting into the details. CT did make a big impact. Ultimately it is very complicated and every case is unique. Edit: I would also add Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and group and talk therapy as well as ongoing engagement with professionals in general was essential.

PastaMonster 8y ago

How did you get better? Please be detailed.

lootsauce 8y ago
I can't completely speak for this person, a close relative. I don't and maybe she does not either, know exactly what it was that worked. It took a long time, many steps forward and backward. I would simply say seek professional help.

throwaway8879 8y ago

It's been just over a year since my last suicide attempt that left me in a coma for under a month and subsequently left me unable to use my legs. It's been a hard journey learning to walk again, and I did my first 20k steps this morning. My left pinky is a little numb, and I'm not sure if it's placebo but some of the feeling is coming back. And I'm excited to get back to playing Holdsworth licks again. Life is what it is. But I would prefer it if there was an easy and painless means to end one's life. Human right means nothing without the right to die without pain, and with dignity.

lootsauce 8y ago
I find that many if not most people on HN are atheists. I was for 35 years. No longer, that is long story for some other time but I will pray for you and hope that by the grace of God you recover and find true joy and peace in this life.
- throwaway8879 8y ago
  Thank you, friend.

daveFNbuck 8y ago

I've always felt that euthanasia gives people a better chance by potentially turning a suicide attempt into a chance for medical intervention before it happens. How do you know that this is a net negative?

lootsauce 8y ago
With all sincerity it is based on logic and reason enlightened by faith. http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/end-of-life/euthanasia/index.cfm http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignit...
- daveFNbuck 8y ago
  That page is just full of links, so I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be getting from it. Are you saying that you don't care whether the availability of euthanasia increases or decreases the death rate for people with psychological problems?

NeedMoreTea 8y ago

Yet for every story akin to this there is one of someone who's unable to get desired help, despite years of trying. Of mental health services that are unavailable or under-funded, or go through shit for most of their life. All the while living in countries that don't have euthanasia available, even for terminal cases. We are already "begging" people not to go - that leads to the efforts to turn it into a huge guilt trip as often practised by church dignitaries when discussing euthanasia - both in the specific or abstract. Also, as described in the article, they have to validate their state of mind with others first. Neither should we be shoving them through it. Can't we just accept that sometimes someone has actually had enough and let them make their own minds up? Their life might actually be shit, and it is they that have to live it. The fact that it rare enough to be headline worthy, yet the thousands of cases who go through a temporary acute crisis and hang or shoot themselves aren't speaks volumes don't you think?

lootsauce 8y ago
I know exactly how you feel, I get that argument. I choose to disagree on moral grounds. I know it is so easy to disregard my position. But here is just one thing to consider. It is far cheaper to provide assisted suicide than to provide social support, medical support and guidance. When we have all these baby boomers headed for infirmity and assisted living lacking the funds to pay for it, make no mistake. You will see suicide made out to be heroic, it will be lifted up. Death with dignity will be promoted with unassailable stories. But you will never hear of the lives, of those silenced ultimately because of an economic reality. We should choose to lift up life even when it hurts to affirm the great dignity of each person. Because an emotional story can become the authorization in a bureaucratic system to wipe people away to save money. http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/assisted-suicide/to-live-each-day/assisted-suicide-videos.cfm http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignit...
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  No disregard of your personal position - I respect your right to choose your own outcome and hold life sacred for you and yours. I get uncomfortable when it's others imposing the belief that a life is "sacred". I might then be forced to die slowly, and extremely painfully, over some years having been diagnosed with terminal cancer. Having seen that with my father, though he received superb palliative care, no thank you. I've heard the killed for cost argument many times over the thirty or so years since it became a regular media topic in the UK. It;s roughly 20 since Netherlands legalised euthanasia, maybe more. The reality doesn't seem to bear any resemblance to your predictions; the vast majority in the Netherlands are still in favour of the law (over 90% I think), yet the numbers taking euthanasia are still low. The requirement for medical second and third opinions should prevent unpleasant relatives pushing granny under the bus or the state seeking to save cash. A universal healthcare system undoubtedly helps distance the patient from the cost implications. Even having passed all the the hurdles, with an advance directive completed beforehand, it's not guaranteed euthanasia will result. If you haven't completed an advance directive and are not in sound mind, it's simply not available. In other words it's not a policy decision, it's a personal and medical one.