2 ms·
Even if you were to define nationalism solely based foreign-born population, the least nationalistic country would obviously be Vatican City with 100% foreign b
by TheCoelacanth 8y ago
Even if you were to define nationalism solely based foreign-born population, the least nationalistic country would obviously be Vatican City with 100% foreign born or UAE with 84% if you want to exclude extreme outliers. The US isn't even particularly high at 14% of the population being foreign born.
And of course, restrictions on freedom of movement can't be summed up exclusively with number of immigrants. There are many countries that are much, much easier to get into than the US; people just don't want to go there as much. And of course, nationalism isn't exclusively border control. That is just one nationalistic behavior.
- leereeves 8y agoI think you know I was only offering foreign born population as an example of the US's freedom of movement, not as the definition of nationalism. If you're intentionally misinterpreting me, this discussion isn't going anywhere. But in the hope that that's not the case, I'll try again: What country offers freedom of movement to the most people? The US, by far.
- shanghaiaway 8y agoChina offers far more freedom of movement. US is at the bottom. By far.
- leereeves 8y agoChina doesn't even offer freedom of movement to its own citizens. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hukou_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hukou_system
- TheCoelacanth 8y agoNonsense, you are completely ignoring country size, and even in absolute numbers every country in the Schengen Area allows every citizen of other Schengen Area countries complete freedom of movement. For any given country in the Schengen Area, that is more foreigners who are allowed complete freedom of movement than the entire population of the US, much less just the foreign born population of the US. Just because most of those people don't choose to exercise that ability, doesn't mean they don't have it.
- leereeves 8y agoThe Schengen area is more like the US itself. A federal system of once independent states uniting to eventually form a single nation. The freedom to move from France to Germany, or from California to New York, has nothing to do with the freedom of movement of people born outside those systems.
- TheCoelacanth 8y agoLOL, you are basically saying that by entering into an agreement like the Schengen Agreement and becoming less like nations, the overall group becomes more nationalistic. That seems like absurd circular reasoning. The constituent countries in the EU are still sovereign countries. Unlike US states, they are free to leave at any time.
- leereeves 8y agoBy your definition of nationalism, Europe is simply replacing French/German/etc nationalism with EU nationalism. The EU already has a parliament, "federal" laws, and a single currency. They're building an EU army and discussing federal taxes. At what point do you call them a nation?
- TheCoelacanth 8y agoYou are engaging in absurd double-think. Loosening restrictions on movement is not tightening restrictions on movement no matter how many mental hoops you try to jump through.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- leereeves 8y agoThis discussion is becoming too hostile for Hacker News. I'll make one more attempt to explain my point of view, then I'm out: Loosening restrictions on select people is not loosening restrictions on everyone. Vatican City, with their tightly controlled migration policy, is not the country with the most freedom of movement simply because they allow freedom of movement to carefully chosen people. In the Vatican, for example, a given person either has a 100% chance of migration or a 0% chance. Israel has similar numbers. In the Schengen area, it's either a 100% chance or a very small chance. Update: Perhaps this will be clearer. Every free country grants total freedom of movement to some group of people. In Israel, this is Jewish people. In the United States, US citizens. In the Schengen area, citizens of the Schengen area. What does that have to do with nationalism? Nationalism is a distinction between the treatment of in-group people and out-group people. In the Schengen area, people from the Schengen area are the in-group.