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it is nationalist policy that restricts flow.

leereeves 8y ago
All nations do that. A definition of "nationalist" that includes every nation isn't particularly useful for distinguishing the policies of nations.
- TheCoelacanth 8y ago
  All nations are at least a bit nationalistic. If they weren't at all nationalistic, they wouldn't be nations. Restrictions on the free flow of people are not a binary decision. Countries in the Schengen Area which have almost completely given up the ability restrict movement between their territory and 25 other nations are not restricting the movement of people as much as say North Korea which doesn't even let most of its own citizens travel abroad.
  - leereeves 8y ago
    By that definition the US is the least nationalist country on the planet. 20% of the world's foreign born population lives in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_immigrant_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_d... And it seems to me that it's that lack of "nationalism" as you've defined it that's helping US-based companies exploit cheap labor in (or from) other nations.
    - TheCoelacanth 8y ago
      Even if you were to define nationalism solely based foreign-born population, the least nationalistic country would obviously be Vatican City with 100% foreign born or UAE with 84% if you want to exclude extreme outliers. The US isn't even particularly high at 14% of the population being foreign born. And of course, restrictions on freedom of movement can't be summed up exclusively with number of immigrants. There are many countries that are much, much easier to get into than the US; people just don't want to go there as much. And of course, nationalism isn't exclusively border control. That is just one nationalistic behavior.
      - leereeves 8y ago
        I think you know I was only offering foreign born population as an example of the US's freedom of movement, not as the definition of nationalism. If you're intentionally misinterpreting me, this discussion isn't going anywhere. But in the hope that that's not the case, I'll try again: What country offers freedom of movement to the most people? The US, by far.
        shanghaiaway 8y ago
        China offers far more freedom of movement. US is at the bottom. By far.
        leereeves 8y ago
        China doesn't even offer freedom of movement to its own citizens. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hukou_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hukou_system
        TheCoelacanth 8y ago
        Nonsense, you are completely ignoring country size, and even in absolute numbers every country in the Schengen Area allows every citizen of other Schengen Area countries complete freedom of movement. For any given country in the Schengen Area, that is more foreigners who are allowed complete freedom of movement than the entire population of the US, much less just the foreign born population of the US. Just because most of those people don't choose to exercise that ability, doesn't mean they don't have it.
        leereeves 8y ago
        The Schengen area is more like the US itself. A federal system of once independent states uniting to eventually form a single nation. The freedom to move from France to Germany, or from California to New York, has nothing to do with the freedom of movement of people born outside those systems.
        8y ago

All nations do that. A definition of "nationalist" that includes every nation isn't particularly useful for distinguishing the policies of nations.

TheCoelacanth 8y ago
All nations are at least a bit nationalistic. If they weren't at all nationalistic, they wouldn't be nations. Restrictions on the free flow of people are not a binary decision. Countries in the Schengen Area which have almost completely given up the ability restrict movement between their territory and 25 other nations are not restricting the movement of people as much as say North Korea which doesn't even let most of its own citizens travel abroad.
- leereeves 8y ago
  By that definition the US is the least nationalist country on the planet. 20% of the world's foreign born population lives in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_immigrant_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_d... And it seems to me that it's that lack of "nationalism" as you've defined it that's helping US-based companies exploit cheap labor in (or from) other nations.
  - TheCoelacanth 8y ago
    Even if you were to define nationalism solely based foreign-born population, the least nationalistic country would obviously be Vatican City with 100% foreign born or UAE with 84% if you want to exclude extreme outliers. The US isn't even particularly high at 14% of the population being foreign born. And of course, restrictions on freedom of movement can't be summed up exclusively with number of immigrants. There are many countries that are much, much easier to get into than the US; people just don't want to go there as much. And of course, nationalism isn't exclusively border control. That is just one nationalistic behavior.
    - leereeves 8y ago
      I think you know I was only offering foreign born population as an example of the US's freedom of movement, not as the definition of nationalism. If you're intentionally misinterpreting me, this discussion isn't going anywhere. But in the hope that that's not the case, I'll try again: What country offers freedom of movement to the most people? The US, by far.
      - shanghaiaway 8y ago
        China offers far more freedom of movement. US is at the bottom. By far.
        leereeves 8y ago
        China doesn't even offer freedom of movement to its own citizens. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hukou_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hukou_system
      - TheCoelacanth 8y ago
        Nonsense, you are completely ignoring country size, and even in absolute numbers every country in the Schengen Area allows every citizen of other Schengen Area countries complete freedom of movement. For any given country in the Schengen Area, that is more foreigners who are allowed complete freedom of movement than the entire population of the US, much less just the foreign born population of the US. Just because most of those people don't choose to exercise that ability, doesn't mean they don't have it.
        leereeves 8y ago
        The Schengen area is more like the US itself. A federal system of once independent states uniting to eventually form a single nation. The freedom to move from France to Germany, or from California to New York, has nothing to do with the freedom of movement of people born outside those systems.
        8y ago