5 ms·

There are an infinite number of bad ideas in the world. No-one’s life would be improved by hearing them all.

by moomin 8y ago

devtul 8y ago
In Saudi Arabia letting women drive was/is deemed a bad idea. Some cultures think it is a bad idea to not cut off the clit of girls. There are Islamic scholars that will go at length on how you should discipline physically your wife, for her own good. In those places/societies opinions against all of it would be considered wrong ideas. If you stiffen speech, you don't just stop the society from regressing, you also rob it from progress.
- anigbrowl 8y ago
  Yes, proposing that a group have more rights that they don't currently enjoy is just like saying a group should be suppressed and have their rights curtailed.
  - 0x8BADF00D 8y ago
    People don’t get more rights than others. All individuals get the same unalienable rights, and that is a universal truth which is self-evident.
    - anigbrowl 8y ago
      I disagree, but in any case you seem to be disregarding the context of my comment above, without which it is empty of meaning.
    - zaarn 8y ago
      How is this "universal truth self-evident"? I'd love you to show me that there is a repeatable and measurable experiment that determines that as a fundamental function of the universe, people should have equal rights. Personally, I don't believe that (the fact it's a universal truth) to be true, morals and ethics are a subjective topic and stuff like "everyone should have equal right" is something that most people including me can agree on fairly easily. Other people might not agree.
    - yontherubicon 8y ago
      This doesn't work without a universal moral law, an assumption now deprecated in many circles.
    - jazzyjackson 8y ago
      The founders held those truths to be self-evident, but in some contexts (say , outside of educated 18th century gentry) they must be argued.
  - lmm 8y ago
    It is. The only point where "rights" matter is when two groups of people are in conflict, and each side will always be able to express what they want as a "right" (e.g. making it illegal for other people to describe you in their own terms is your "right to exist").
    - anigbrowl 8y ago
      That doesn't follow. If group A enjoys a right and group B does not, and that right is extended to group B, Group A no longer enjoys the same advantage over Group B but hasn't suffered any limitation of rights. To use the supplied example, if you're a male driver in Saudi Arabia your driving privileges are unimpaired by the novel legality of female drivers.
      - lmm 8y ago
        Group A will always find some way to define the change as them losing a "right". E.g. in the US if you propose to extend the right to life that born people currently enjoy to the unborn, many born people will claim this is a violation of their rights.
      - webmaven 8y ago
        > if you're a male driver in Saudi Arabia your driving privileges are unimpaired by the novel legality of female drivers. Your right to drive is unimpaired, but the privilege of driving that you enjoy most definitely is. Most movements to expand rights to new groups are opposed by those who would thereby experience a diminution of their privelege (which is always relative). This is also why you have the wealthy so often opposing policies that will create more wealth for everyone including themselves, because those same policies reduce their relative advantages.
0x8BADF00D 8y ago
Maybe not. But is one’s life diminished by hearing bad ideas? I don’t think so. For instance, the idea that the Earth is flat is laughable. But my life doesn’t deteriorate nor improve based on that idea. We can all agree it’s a stupid idea, laugh at it, and move on.
- foxylad 8y ago
  Bad ideas certainly can diminish quality of life. Firstly because we can't all agree that they are stupid and move on - the flat earth trolls are actually gaining momentum, and we've been re-litigating creationism for over a hundred years. This re-arguing ties up an enormous amount of energy that we could spend far more productively. And secondly, when the masses weary of arguing nonsense ideas, there is a danger of them becoming acceptable. If we all stop arguing when the trolls repeat yet again that jews/immigrants/women/gays are sub-human and should be removed, some people will take that silence as assent and the violence begins. So what we need is some kind of snopes for ideas, where our brightest and best could weigh good and bad ideas, and the rest of us could just point to their results. But wait - that's what a university* is! And it's no coincidence that the trolls direct their fiercest fury at academics. *Trump University excepted.
  - toasterlovin 8y ago
    Is there any evidence that there are more people who believe crazy things than before? It seems way more likely to me that there is a portion of the population who are nuts and basically cycle through various conspiracy theories.
- snowwrestler 8y ago
  Depends on the bad idea. If the bad idea was that you and your family should be killed or forcibly expelled from your jobs and homes, and you heard it discussed seriously and frequently by your neighbors, police officers, and elected officials--yeah, I think that might diminish your quality of life in some ways.
  - CaptainZapp 8y ago

There are an infinite number of bad ideas in the world. No-one’s life would be improved by hearing them all.

by moomin 8y ago

There are an infinite number of bad ideas in the world. No-one’s life would be improved by hearing them all.

In Saudi Arabia letting women drive was/is deemed a bad idea. Some cultures think it is a bad idea to not cut off the clit of girls. There are Islamic scholars that will go at length on how you should discipline physically your wife, for her own good. In those places/societies opinions against all of it would be considered wrong ideas. If you stiffen speech, you don't just stop the society from regressing, you also rob it from progress.

anigbrowl 8y ago
Yes, proposing that a group have more rights that they don't currently enjoy is just like saying a group should be suppressed and have their rights curtailed.
- 0x8BADF00D 8y ago
  People don’t get more rights than others. All individuals get the same unalienable rights, and that is a universal truth which is self-evident.
  - anigbrowl 8y ago
    I disagree, but in any case you seem to be disregarding the context of my comment above, without which it is empty of meaning.
  - zaarn 8y ago
    How is this "universal truth self-evident"? I'd love you to show me that there is a repeatable and measurable experiment that determines that as a fundamental function of the universe, people should have equal rights. Personally, I don't believe that (the fact it's a universal truth) to be true, morals and ethics are a subjective topic and stuff like "everyone should have equal right" is something that most people including me can agree on fairly easily. Other people might not agree.
  - yontherubicon 8y ago
    This doesn't work without a universal moral law, an assumption now deprecated in many circles.
  - jazzyjackson 8y ago
    The founders held those truths to be self-evident, but in some contexts (say , outside of educated 18th century gentry) they must be argued.
- lmm 8y ago
  It is. The only point where "rights" matter is when two groups of people are in conflict, and each side will always be able to express what they want as a "right" (e.g. making it illegal for other people to describe you in their own terms is your "right to exist").
  - anigbrowl 8y ago
    That doesn't follow. If group A enjoys a right and group B does not, and that right is extended to group B, Group A no longer enjoys the same advantage over Group B but hasn't suffered any limitation of rights. To use the supplied example, if you're a male driver in Saudi Arabia your driving privileges are unimpaired by the novel legality of female drivers.
    - lmm 8y ago
      Group A will always find some way to define the change as them losing a "right". E.g. in the US if you propose to extend the right to life that born people currently enjoy to the unborn, many born people will claim this is a violation of their rights.
    - webmaven 8y ago
      > if you're a male driver in Saudi Arabia your driving privileges are unimpaired by the novel legality of female drivers. Your right to drive is unimpaired, but the privilege of driving that you enjoy most definitely is. Most movements to expand rights to new groups are opposed by those who would thereby experience a diminution of their privelege (which is always relative). This is also why you have the wealthy so often opposing policies that will create more wealth for everyone including themselves, because those same policies reduce their relative advantages.

0x8BADF00D 8y ago

Maybe not. But is one’s life diminished by hearing bad ideas? I don’t think so. For instance, the idea that the Earth is flat is laughable. But my life doesn’t deteriorate nor improve based on that idea. We can all agree it’s a stupid idea, laugh at it, and move on.

foxylad 8y ago
Bad ideas certainly can diminish quality of life. Firstly because we can't all agree that they are stupid and move on - the flat earth trolls are actually gaining momentum, and we've been re-litigating creationism for over a hundred years. This re-arguing ties up an enormous amount of energy that we could spend far more productively. And secondly, when the masses weary of arguing nonsense ideas, there is a danger of them becoming acceptable. If we all stop arguing when the trolls repeat yet again that jews/immigrants/women/gays are sub-human and should be removed, some people will take that silence as assent and the violence begins. So what we need is some kind of snopes for ideas, where our brightest and best could weigh good and bad ideas, and the rest of us could just point to their results. But wait - that's what a university* is! And it's no coincidence that the trolls direct their fiercest fury at academics. *Trump University excepted.
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  Is there any evidence that there are more people who believe crazy things than before? It seems way more likely to me that there is a portion of the population who are nuts and basically cycle through various conspiracy theories.
snowwrestler 8y ago
Depends on the bad idea. If the bad idea was that you and your family should be killed or forcibly expelled from your jobs and homes, and you heard it discussed seriously and frequently by your neighbors, police officers, and elected officials--yeah, I think that might diminish your quality of life in some ways.
- CaptainZapp 8y ago