4 ms·

The severe issue for the last 5-6 months since trying to use LED panels has been a tingling/tightness sensation around cheeks/nose that spreads to back of head/

The severe issue for the last 5-6 months since trying to use LED panels has been a tingling/tightness sensation around cheeks/nose that spreads to back of head/neck/trapezius turning into pain/ache. If you clench your eyes/face and lean forward you can feel the neck/upper back tighten too and it's all that area which makes me think something is triggering eye muscles to the degree they are making me tense everything else, but I have had lots of "intuition" about this that was never correct. Eyes have always been dry since lasik, esp when living in forced air homes, but drops and blinking don't help this. No redness that stood out to me.No peripheral vision issues. No color distortions/double vision/ weird visual stuff but mild floaters I have had for 20-25 years. It can trigger anywhere from seconds to several minutes depending on the display. I have not had an exam when it's present. No insurance and scheduling/access is not quick. Switching to any reading/distance but the LED displays soothes it with time and I feel no symptoms reading on paper. If its flared badly and other pain/stress/tension is high it can take some hours or a night's sleep to recover. On a good day with only a few min of strain induced, an hour outside is enough. Font size, antialiasing, resolution, different distros, drivers never mattered...even tried an all AMD laptop as some think intel drivers are the culprit but it was worse than most. The old display is supposedly the worst of all specs...low res/glossy/TN/CCFL/ has PWM and not great color gamut etc. Running Xubuntu on it, but that same distro and all others hurt on the LED laptops.

joveian 8y ago
I have no idea why the new displays would be different, but I did discover at one point that medication can affect eyes in surprising and wierdly lighting-device specific ways. In my case, I found that phenibut was causing a light therapy visor to hurt my eyes even on low, although strangely even fairly bright natural light did not. Even without phenibut I have trouble with the visor on high (a ReTimer that I got due to it being more greenish). Later I learned that taurine transpoters can also transport GABA and I suspect that this might have something to do with it (and that people who use high amounts of phenibut for long periods of time may be causing permanant eye damage via retinal taurine depletion). If you are taking medication and are able to try something else for a little while, there is at least a small chance that could help. You may have tried this, but if it is muscle related then massaging your face and/or upper back might help. Not pushing, but grabbing and slowly twisting the muscles or skin. E.g. put three fingers at the bottom of your eye socket and bring your thumb up so it is an inch or a little less away from your second finger, then push your thumb up and fingers 3 and 4 down. You can repeat the same basic twisting motion over much of your face. Another one is grab skin/muscle between your thumb and two fingers and tilt towards the two fingers. Just lifting muscles (as tilting towards your thumb can sometimes do, or grab and lift) can also be quite helpful. In the back of the neck and upper back it is easier to twist the muscle (but avoid the sides of the neck where there are fragile nerves) and additionally skin rolling can be helpful where you put two or three fingers opposite the flat side of your thumb, grab a small amount of skin (and potentially muscle too, although your focus should be on the skin) and then walk your thumb forward with your fingers, such that there is a raised area that moves in front of your thumb. If it feels "crunchy" at all or feels like it is sticking to the muscle (that you can't lift the skin as easily as elsewhere), go over it again until it doesn't, although not necessarily all at once since it can be exceptionally painful in some cases (in that case, just do a little each day and it should eventually not be painful). The twisting can usually be done in a way that affects just the skin or the muscle as well and both can be helpful. Those three techniques (twisting or lifting muscles and twisting or rolling skin) are IMO the most useful ones anywhere on the body you can do them (also don't get too close to most joints), but just applying pressure to muscles doesn't really help in my experience. Lifting muscles on your own back is hard and not necessarily worth aiming for. For the face another good technique if you can is to put down your middle three fingers and keep them in one spot on your skin while moving your hand rapidly within a quarter inch or so of that spot. The muscle/skin adherence particularly tends to happen on legs, most of all upper legs but often both, although the upper back/shoulder area is another area it frequently happens. If you see a massage therapist, look for Shiatsu, Tui-Na, or (not exclusively stretching focused) Thai massage since those styles are more focused on this kind of thing. But there may be quite a bit you can do yourself (depending on your other issues) that can be helpful. I guess it is unlikely to fix the real issue here but might at least help you recover faster.
- hestipod 8y ago
  "Later I learned that taurine transpoters can also transport GABA and I suspect that this might have something to do with it" Can you clarify this? Phenibut affects GABA but above you said, taurine transporters can also transport GABA so I am not sure what you mean. Are you saying that Phenibut might hijack the taurine transporters so they cannot be used for Taurine? I have taken Zolpidem (which affects GABA) for sleep off and on for long periods but I am pretty sure I had this strain even when off it for 6 months or so so not super hopeful. Do I need to supplement Taurine then or is there some test for it in the retina you can have done? If it's permanent as you say that's not hopeful. However once again, and I know you said it was weirdly spcific, but since this only happens on LED backlit displays I find it hard to believe it's something like that since that should affect other visual things.
  - joveian 8y ago
    Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I thought permanant damage was likely in your case (unless you happened to be taking a lot of Phenibut over a long period of time), just that it is possible that some medication could somehow be causing your problem. At least GABA itself is transported by the taurine transporters and if you have enough GABA (as far as I know this has only been observed with vigabatrin use or rare genetic GABA metabolism disorders) then the retina will not get enough taurine and peripheral vision will suffer permanant damage that can only be detected with a special test until it gets quite bad. Taurine supplementation does prevent damage in that case. Phenibut might possibly have the taurine transporter issue since (unlike Zolpidem) it is considered a GABA analog plus some people take quite a lot of it and even the lowest doses are quite a bit higher than the higest Zolpidem dose. Baclofen is similar to Phenibut but used in much lower quantities so it also seems unlikely to cause that trouble (and it actually doesn't cause my eyes to hurt). And I could be completely wrong about Phenibut having that particular issue, all I really know is that it makes my eyes hurt when I use the light therapy visor. Actually, I just remembered that taurine itself causes my eyes to hurt in the same way, so while it could still potentially be taurine transporter related it at least isn't a lack of taurine for my particular issue (sorry, I am also disabled due to sleep issues in my case and either that or some additional unknown issue affects my memory). I see that Zolpidem does have multiple common eye related side effects, so somehow it can negatively affect the eyes. If you haven't been taking medication the whole time you have noticed the problem then that should be enough to conclude that it isn't medication related. Or if you are taking something else (like pain medication) but can't fairly easily change to something with a different mechanism of action then I don't think it is likely enough to be worth too much trouble (but keep the possibility in mind if you are ever in a position to test it). For me it was even more specific, just the one particular LED light that caused the trouble, not my computer screen (which is older but I just checked and it is LED backlight) or brighter natural light, or anything else. I would have also thought it should affect other visual things but somehow it didn't (although in my case maybe it is somehow connected to the LED being so close to my eyes).
walterbell 8y ago
Have you tried an external LCD monitor that is big enough for you to increase the viewing distance to about 40"/100cm? As a simple experiment, move your current laptop further away, increase the font size and see if the time-to-eyestrain gets longer. There are gaming monitors which have faster refresh rates. Dry eyes need to be addressed, as the tear film contributes to clear vision. You can use a "sipper" bottle of water to keep your upper respiratory track moistened. Yawning can trigger lubrication of the eyes, if you are drinking enough water. Do you have EMF sensitivity?
- hestipod 8y ago
  I have adjusted distance and font size and every other display parameter I can with no effect. refresh rates seem irrelevant. I use eye drops when needed but have had this dryness issue since lasik surgery in 2000. It's not so bad in non-forced air homes where it's not as dried out all the time but right now I am in one. I drink a lot of water. I don't have EMF sensitivity that I know of and again this only happens with LED displays so far.
  - walterbell 8y ago
    Lenovo X1 Yoga has an OLED display, https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-x/ThinkPad-X1-Yoga-1st-Gen/p/22TP2TXX11Y https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-x/Thi... Dell U2711 monitor has a CCFL backlight, is available on eBay, http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2711.htm http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2711.htm You've probably seen this LED vs CCFL monitor thread, it mentioned that CCFL screens are matte, is there any chance that your LED screens have a lot of reflections from objects/lighting behind you? https://superuser.com/questions/149362/is-an-led-monitor-better-for-eyes-than-an-lcd-monitor https://superuser.com/questions/149362/is-an-led-monitor-bet... This 2018 article summarizes display technologies for backlighting and phosphors for color accuracy, you can see a range of color spectra, https://pcmonitors.info/articles/the-evolution-of-led-backlights/ https://pcmonitors.info/articles/the-evolution-of-led-backli... This site has articles on eye sensitivity to light color, https://glarminy.com/2016/04/11/are-your-eyes-sensitive-to-light-or-blue-light/ https://glarminy.com/2016/04/11/are-your-eyes-sensitive-to-l..., they sell a $20 kit with 8 filters that mimic the spectrogram of various commercial glasses for blue blocking or migraine relief, it's a cheap way to test how your eyes react to different filters+devices, https://glarminy.com/blue-filter-tester/ https://glarminy.com/blue-filter-tester/

joveian 8y ago

I have no idea why the new displays would be different, but I did discover at one point that medication can affect eyes in surprising and wierdly lighting-device specific ways. In my case, I found that phenibut was causing a light therapy visor to hurt my eyes even on low, although strangely even fairly bright natural light did not. Even without phenibut I have trouble with the visor on high (a ReTimer that I got due to it being more greenish). Later I learned that taurine transpoters can also transport GABA and I suspect that this might have something to do with it (and that people who use high amounts of phenibut for long periods of time may be causing permanant eye damage via retinal taurine depletion). If you are taking medication and are able to try something else for a little while, there is at least a small chance that could help. You may have tried this, but if it is muscle related then massaging your face and/or upper back might help. Not pushing, but grabbing and slowly twisting the muscles or skin. E.g. put three fingers at the bottom of your eye socket and bring your thumb up so it is an inch or a little less away from your second finger, then push your thumb up and fingers 3 and 4 down. You can repeat the same basic twisting motion over much of your face. Another one is grab skin/muscle between your thumb and two fingers and tilt towards the two fingers. Just lifting muscles (as tilting towards your thumb can sometimes do, or grab and lift) can also be quite helpful. In the back of the neck and upper back it is easier to twist the muscle (but avoid the sides of the neck where there are fragile nerves) and additionally skin rolling can be helpful where you put two or three fingers opposite the flat side of your thumb, grab a small amount of skin (and potentially muscle too, although your focus should be on the skin) and then walk your thumb forward with your fingers, such that there is a raised area that moves in front of your thumb. If it feels "crunchy" at all or feels like it is sticking to the muscle (that you can't lift the skin as easily as elsewhere), go over it again until it doesn't, although not necessarily all at once since it can be exceptionally painful in some cases (in that case, just do a little each day and it should eventually not be painful). The twisting can usually be done in a way that affects just the skin or the muscle as well and both can be helpful. Those three techniques (twisting or lifting muscles and twisting or rolling skin) are IMO the most useful ones anywhere on the body you can do them (also don't get too close to most joints), but just applying pressure to muscles doesn't really help in my experience. Lifting muscles on your own back is hard and not necessarily worth aiming for. For the face another good technique if you can is to put down your middle three fingers and keep them in one spot on your skin while moving your hand rapidly within a quarter inch or so of that spot. The muscle/skin adherence particularly tends to happen on legs, most of all upper legs but often both, although the upper back/shoulder area is another area it frequently happens. If you see a massage therapist, look for Shiatsu, Tui-Na, or (not exclusively stretching focused) Thai massage since those styles are more focused on this kind of thing. But there may be quite a bit you can do yourself (depending on your other issues) that can be helpful. I guess it is unlikely to fix the real issue here but might at least help you recover faster.

hestipod 8y ago
"Later I learned that taurine transpoters can also transport GABA and I suspect that this might have something to do with it" Can you clarify this? Phenibut affects GABA but above you said, taurine transporters can also transport GABA so I am not sure what you mean. Are you saying that Phenibut might hijack the taurine transporters so they cannot be used for Taurine? I have taken Zolpidem (which affects GABA) for sleep off and on for long periods but I am pretty sure I had this strain even when off it for 6 months or so so not super hopeful. Do I need to supplement Taurine then or is there some test for it in the retina you can have done? If it's permanent as you say that's not hopeful. However once again, and I know you said it was weirdly spcific, but since this only happens on LED backlit displays I find it hard to believe it's something like that since that should affect other visual things.
- joveian 8y ago
  Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I thought permanant damage was likely in your case (unless you happened to be taking a lot of Phenibut over a long period of time), just that it is possible that some medication could somehow be causing your problem. At least GABA itself is transported by the taurine transporters and if you have enough GABA (as far as I know this has only been observed with vigabatrin use or rare genetic GABA metabolism disorders) then the retina will not get enough taurine and peripheral vision will suffer permanant damage that can only be detected with a special test until it gets quite bad. Taurine supplementation does prevent damage in that case. Phenibut might possibly have the taurine transporter issue since (unlike Zolpidem) it is considered a GABA analog plus some people take quite a lot of it and even the lowest doses are quite a bit higher than the higest Zolpidem dose. Baclofen is similar to Phenibut but used in much lower quantities so it also seems unlikely to cause that trouble (and it actually doesn't cause my eyes to hurt). And I could be completely wrong about Phenibut having that particular issue, all I really know is that it makes my eyes hurt when I use the light therapy visor. Actually, I just remembered that taurine itself causes my eyes to hurt in the same way, so while it could still potentially be taurine transporter related it at least isn't a lack of taurine for my particular issue (sorry, I am also disabled due to sleep issues in my case and either that or some additional unknown issue affects my memory). I see that Zolpidem does have multiple common eye related side effects, so somehow it can negatively affect the eyes. If you haven't been taking medication the whole time you have noticed the problem then that should be enough to conclude that it isn't medication related. Or if you are taking something else (like pain medication) but can't fairly easily change to something with a different mechanism of action then I don't think it is likely enough to be worth too much trouble (but keep the possibility in mind if you are ever in a position to test it). For me it was even more specific, just the one particular LED light that caused the trouble, not my computer screen (which is older but I just checked and it is LED backlight) or brighter natural light, or anything else. I would have also thought it should affect other visual things but somehow it didn't (although in my case maybe it is somehow connected to the LED being so close to my eyes).

walterbell 8y ago

Have you tried an external LCD monitor that is big enough for you to increase the viewing distance to about 40"/100cm? As a simple experiment, move your current laptop further away, increase the font size and see if the time-to-eyestrain gets longer. There are gaming monitors which have faster refresh rates. Dry eyes need to be addressed, as the tear film contributes to clear vision. You can use a "sipper" bottle of water to keep your upper respiratory track moistened. Yawning can trigger lubrication of the eyes, if you are drinking enough water. Do you have EMF sensitivity?

hestipod 8y ago
I have adjusted distance and font size and every other display parameter I can with no effect. refresh rates seem irrelevant. I use eye drops when needed but have had this dryness issue since lasik surgery in 2000. It's not so bad in non-forced air homes where it's not as dried out all the time but right now I am in one. I drink a lot of water. I don't have EMF sensitivity that I know of and again this only happens with LED displays so far.
- walterbell 8y ago
  Lenovo X1 Yoga has an OLED display, https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-x/ThinkPad-X1-Yoga-1st-Gen/p/22TP2TXX11Y https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-x/Thi... Dell U2711 monitor has a CCFL backlight, is available on eBay, http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2711.htm http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2711.htm You've probably seen this LED vs CCFL monitor thread, it mentioned that CCFL screens are matte, is there any chance that your LED screens have a lot of reflections from objects/lighting behind you? https://superuser.com/questions/149362/is-an-led-monitor-better-for-eyes-than-an-lcd-monitor https://superuser.com/questions/149362/is-an-led-monitor-bet... This 2018 article summarizes display technologies for backlighting and phosphors for color accuracy, you can see a range of color spectra, https://pcmonitors.info/articles/the-evolution-of-led-backlights/ https://pcmonitors.info/articles/the-evolution-of-led-backli... This site has articles on eye sensitivity to light color, https://glarminy.com/2016/04/11/are-your-eyes-sensitive-to-light-or-blue-light/ https://glarminy.com/2016/04/11/are-your-eyes-sensitive-to-l..., they sell a $20 kit with 8 filters that mimic the spectrogram of various commercial glasses for blue blocking or migraine relief, it's a cheap way to test how your eyes react to different filters+devices, https://glarminy.com/blue-filter-tester/ https://glarminy.com/blue-filter-tester/