7 ms·

Why Y Combinator is a waste of time

43 points by helwr 16y ago

DanHulton 16y ago
Why is a blog-style rant a scribd document? Nothing terribly interesting in it, either. Apparently Y-Combinator is "The Man" these days and must be railed against? Times change so fast.
- andrewljohnson 16y ago
  I don't think this piece was meant to denigrate YC, though a cursory reading of it certainly makes it seem that way - the author didn't do a very good job balancing the link-bait against his true point. This is just another "get out there and do something" fluff piece, packaged in an angsty teen way.
leftnode 16y ago
It's ironic this is hosted on Scribd, a YC company.
- kno 16y ago
  I don’t see the irony in criticism.
swombat 16y ago
This article is dangerous because it mixes truths with falsehoods. Yes, if you're banking everything on YCombinator, you will fail. You're doing it wrong. Rethink your approach. However, if you are doing everything right, and you get into YCombinator too, you will get a lot of value out of that, and you should squeeze the most out of it. YCombinator is a multiplier. You need to have something worth multiplying first.
- jasonjei 16y ago
  I think it's good to look at YC as a multiplier. You hedge some equity to lower your risk, as well as gain guidance and advice. I'm self-funding, and I have a "business" guy co-founder who does all the stuff that bores me (such as cold-calling, preparing investor whitepapers, building Powerpoint decks) and possesses qualities I don't have (negotiating, ability to raise money, extensive network of contacts, knows how to sell), so I didn't go the YC route, but I'm sure for technical people who don't have the business advice and consulting, 10% equity is a fair price to pay for PG and crew as well as decent funding. I wouldn't discount the article as dangerous, though. If you can get around its linkbaitedness, it makes a good point that someone concerned about making great software shouldn't worry about funding: I'm the only programmer on my project, with two business people and a designer, and already we have built a Windows middleware piece using XMPP and a Ruby/Rails project to exchange messages via XMPP. (I'm a Mac user, but our software requires Windows because it brings a particular Windows app to the Web that I can't quite disclose yet because I'm in stealth mode.) For coders who don't have business experience, you're better off going with YC so you don't get screwed later. For those who have some business acumen, you might not need the funding or management advice that YC gives. If you're a coder, you will have to learn to have tight budgets. I saved money for two years and invested in the stock market to give me the ability to bet it on this project. But if you can code, you probably don't need a whole lot of money to keep you going. Whether or not you're YC, I'm sure you'll make it work if you're passionate about what you're doing.
  - shykes 16y ago
    YCombinator is not a substitute for business skills in the founding team.
radley 16y ago
TLDR
- radley 16y ago
  (That was nuanced irony. But hey... Flash bad, HTML5 good, blah blah blah servers...)
alain94040 16y ago
This is coming from maxklein, a "famous" person here (read this if you want to know who he really is: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1353307 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1353307). So it's surely another social hack. Maybe testing the theory that if you complain about something, you create more pages views.
- maxklein 16y ago
  The document is 3 years old and posted on scribd, maybe it's not a "social hack" but just something I felt at the time.
maxawaytoolong 16y ago
This link actually crashed my MacBook. WTF, Scribd. Worst YC funded project ever.
- Udo 16y ago
  Didn't crash for me, but just as annoying: stupid Facebook tracking scripts everywhere. Seriously, it's becoming even more pervasive than Google :-(
- ig1 16y ago
  Scribd is actually the most successful YCombinator startup by number of page views (the 233rd most popular site in the world according to Alexa, only just pipping Reddit though). I imagine YC are very happy they funded Scribd.
  - maxawaytoolong 16y ago
    233rd most popular site in the world according to Alexa Page views doesn't mean the site is any good. That ranking still puts them far behind sites like youporn and tube8, sites which have no redeeming value, but at least have never crashed my browser, much less my entire computer.
    - puredemo 16y ago
      Free porn is a pretty redeeming value.
- someone_here 16y ago
  I have never had any website crash any device I have used. Ever. This sounds like a serious issue with your MacBook and not Scribd's problem.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
- nestlequ1k 16y ago
points 16y ago
Reading this on Scribd, wrapped in 4 large adsense units is such a horrible user experience.
- krakensden 16y ago
  It's still better than the flash version
Mc_Big_G 16y ago
The hardest thing about a startup is marketing. YC basically guarantees that you will get the exposure you need. In addition, they have vast experience and will tell you what sucks about your business with no BS and then mentor you in the right direction. It's disingenuous to discount the worth of those two factors alone.
AndrewWarner 16y ago
I'm not convinced Max wrote this. Something seems odd here.
- maxklein 16y ago
  I wrote it, but back in 2007 (look at the timestamp on scribd). A long time ago, and I had other priorities. Post has already been discussed and dissected and emailed about back then.
tdavis 16y ago
Y Combinator isn't about money. They effectively provide team living expenses for three months; assuming you're already a competent developer or creative type, you can save three months living expenses in no time. Y Combinator is about people. A whole lot of people who have a whole lot more experience starting companies than you do. And all those people want to help you succeed, like those before helped them. It's a giant fraternity where instead of keg stands you get proven advice from people who've done the hard work of finding the potholes themselves. If you need to dig a big hole and don't know about a backhoe, you grab a shovel and start working inefficiently. Y Combinator is the construction guy who comes by and tells you about the backhoe. And about digging a hole you can get out of. And about the nearby water line you're probably going to bust open. He saves you a shit load of time and trouble and helps you grow your skill set. Y Combinator not only connects you with smarter entrepreneurs, it connects you with the best of the startup world. Need funding? Need a CEO? Need an invite to something? YC has you covered. They can't make you drink, but they sure know where all the water is. * * * YC helped me grow as a founder and as a developer. It helped me make the best friends of my life. When my co-founder tragically died, Paul and Jessica made sure I could pay the bills—in exchange for nothing (which doesn't scratch the surface of how much my entire class helped). If I had to do it again, I would. Every single time. If you know everybody; if you have a following; if you have ridiculously talented friends, you probably don't need YC. But everybody isn't you.
kno 16y ago
I am curious as of why this article is loosing this much steam, its rank drop from the middle of the first page in seconds.
David 16y ago
I think the author has some good points about working your idea even if you don't make YC, though he seems to be making the argument that shooting for YC at all is a bad idea. "A lot of people who applied to YCombinator are probably hacks with derivative ideas and little ability to actually accomplish things. You are probably one of them. A dreamer who sees external capital as a shortcut towards making money without actually working for it." But contrary to the author's view, YC is also very good at analyzing startup potential. That's how it works -- the business model depends on it. If you don't get accepted to YC, chances are, there's a problem. Of course, they can't accept everyone, and presumably the number of applications is increasing with time, so that problem may be that there are just too many applicants with good ideas. But rejection from YC is a perfect opportunity to reevaluate your idea and your potential. The fact is that there are good startup ideas and bad ones, and being rejected from YC is a hint that you may have a bad one. If you're still confident and passionate after reevaluating, _that_ is when you run with your idea anyway.
JoeAltmaier 16y ago
Yes, we should all slave for our art, and care about it so much we would starve rather than give up. Never mind asking knowledgable people to critique, and if its good enough, even help you improve it. That would clearly be a waste of time.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
kapauldo 16y ago
What does yc give these days, like 25K?

43 points by helwr 16y ago

Why is a blog-style rant a scribd document? Nothing terribly interesting in it, either. Apparently Y-Combinator is "The Man" these days and must be railed against? Times change so fast.

andrewljohnson 16y ago
I don't think this piece was meant to denigrate YC, though a cursory reading of it certainly makes it seem that way - the author didn't do a very good job balancing the link-bait against his true point. This is just another "get out there and do something" fluff piece, packaged in an angsty teen way.

leftnode 16y ago

It's ironic this is hosted on Scribd, a YC company.

kno 16y ago
I don’t see the irony in criticism.

swombat 16y ago

This article is dangerous because it mixes truths with falsehoods. Yes, if you're banking everything on YCombinator, you will fail. You're doing it wrong. Rethink your approach. However, if you are doing everything right, and you get into YCombinator too, you will get a lot of value out of that, and you should squeeze the most out of it. YCombinator is a multiplier. You need to have something worth multiplying first.

jasonjei 16y ago
I think it's good to look at YC as a multiplier. You hedge some equity to lower your risk, as well as gain guidance and advice. I'm self-funding, and I have a "business" guy co-founder who does all the stuff that bores me (such as cold-calling, preparing investor whitepapers, building Powerpoint decks) and possesses qualities I don't have (negotiating, ability to raise money, extensive network of contacts, knows how to sell), so I didn't go the YC route, but I'm sure for technical people who don't have the business advice and consulting, 10% equity is a fair price to pay for PG and crew as well as decent funding. I wouldn't discount the article as dangerous, though. If you can get around its linkbaitedness, it makes a good point that someone concerned about making great software shouldn't worry about funding: I'm the only programmer on my project, with two business people and a designer, and already we have built a Windows middleware piece using XMPP and a Ruby/Rails project to exchange messages via XMPP. (I'm a Mac user, but our software requires Windows because it brings a particular Windows app to the Web that I can't quite disclose yet because I'm in stealth mode.) For coders who don't have business experience, you're better off going with YC so you don't get screwed later. For those who have some business acumen, you might not need the funding or management advice that YC gives. If you're a coder, you will have to learn to have tight budgets. I saved money for two years and invested in the stock market to give me the ability to bet it on this project. But if you can code, you probably don't need a whole lot of money to keep you going. Whether or not you're YC, I'm sure you'll make it work if you're passionate about what you're doing.
- shykes 16y ago
  YCombinator is not a substitute for business skills in the founding team.

radley 16y ago

TLDR

radley 16y ago
(That was nuanced irony. But hey... Flash bad, HTML5 good, blah blah blah servers...)

alain94040 16y ago

This is coming from maxklein, a "famous" person here (read this if you want to know who he really is: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1353307 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1353307). So it's surely another social hack. Maybe testing the theory that if you complain about something, you create more pages views.

maxklein 16y ago
The document is 3 years old and posted on scribd, maybe it's not a "social hack" but just something I felt at the time.

maxawaytoolong 16y ago

This link actually crashed my MacBook. WTF, Scribd. Worst YC funded project ever.

Udo 16y ago
Didn't crash for me, but just as annoying: stupid Facebook tracking scripts everywhere. Seriously, it's becoming even more pervasive than Google :-(
ig1 16y ago
Scribd is actually the most successful YCombinator startup by number of page views (the 233rd most popular site in the world according to Alexa, only just pipping Reddit though). I imagine YC are very happy they funded Scribd.
- maxawaytoolong 16y ago
  233rd most popular site in the world according to Alexa Page views doesn't mean the site is any good. That ranking still puts them far behind sites like youporn and tube8, sites which have no redeeming value, but at least have never crashed my browser, much less my entire computer.
  - puredemo 16y ago
    Free porn is a pretty redeeming value.
someone_here 16y ago
I have never had any website crash any device I have used. Ever. This sounds like a serious issue with your MacBook and not Scribd's problem.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
nestlequ1k 16y ago

points 16y ago

Reading this on Scribd, wrapped in 4 large adsense units is such a horrible user experience.

krakensden 16y ago
It's still better than the flash version

Mc_Big_G 16y ago

The hardest thing about a startup is marketing. YC basically guarantees that you will get the exposure you need. In addition, they have vast experience and will tell you what sucks about your business with no BS and then mentor you in the right direction. It's disingenuous to discount the worth of those two factors alone.

AndrewWarner 16y ago

I'm not convinced Max wrote this. Something seems odd here.

maxklein 16y ago
I wrote it, but back in 2007 (look at the timestamp on scribd). A long time ago, and I had other priorities. Post has already been discussed and dissected and emailed about back then.

tdavis 16y ago

Y Combinator isn't about money. They effectively provide team living expenses for three months; assuming you're already a competent developer or creative type, you can save three months living expenses in no time. Y Combinator is about people. A whole lot of people who have a whole lot more experience starting companies than you do. And all those people want to help you succeed, like those before helped them. It's a giant fraternity where instead of keg stands you get proven advice from people who've done the hard work of finding the potholes themselves. If you need to dig a big hole and don't know about a backhoe, you grab a shovel and start working inefficiently. Y Combinator is the construction guy who comes by and tells you about the backhoe. And about digging a hole you can get out of. And about the nearby water line you're probably going to bust open. He saves you a shit load of time and trouble and helps you grow your skill set. Y Combinator not only connects you with smarter entrepreneurs, it connects you with the best of the startup world. Need funding? Need a CEO? Need an invite to something? YC has you covered. They can't make you drink, but they sure know where all the water is. * * * YC helped me grow as a founder and as a developer. It helped me make the best friends of my life. When my co-founder tragically died, Paul and Jessica made sure I could pay the bills—in exchange for nothing (which doesn't scratch the surface of how much my entire class helped). If I had to do it again, I would. Every single time. If you know everybody; if you have a following; if you have ridiculously talented friends, you probably don't need YC. But everybody isn't you.

kno 16y ago

I am curious as of why this article is loosing this much steam, its rank drop from the middle of the first page in seconds.

David 16y ago

I think the author has some good points about working your idea even if you don't make YC, though he seems to be making the argument that shooting for YC at all is a bad idea. "A lot of people who applied to YCombinator are probably hacks with derivative ideas and little ability to actually accomplish things. You are probably one of them. A dreamer who sees external capital as a shortcut towards making money without actually working for it." But contrary to the author's view, YC is also very good at analyzing startup potential. That's how it works -- the business model depends on it. If you don't get accepted to YC, chances are, there's a problem. Of course, they can't accept everyone, and presumably the number of applications is increasing with time, so that problem may be that there are just too many applicants with good ideas. But rejection from YC is a perfect opportunity to reevaluate your idea and your potential. The fact is that there are good startup ideas and bad ones, and being rejected from YC is a hint that you may have a bad one. If you're still confident and passionate after reevaluating, _that_ is when you run with your idea anyway.

JoeAltmaier 16y ago

Yes, we should all slave for our art, and care about it so much we would starve rather than give up. Never mind asking knowledgable people to critique, and if its good enough, even help you improve it. That would clearly be a waste of time.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

kapauldo 16y ago

What does yc give these days, like 25K?