6 ms·

On Mac, the little green light that comes on any time the camera is used is enforced at the hardware level. This gives me reasonable certainty it isn't being us

On Mac, the little green light that comes on any time the camera is used is enforced at the hardware level. This gives me reasonable certainty it isn't being used illicitly. I find the camera covers everyone uses to be a form of unreasonable extreme paranoia. Agree that the microphone would be just as damaging, but since it's a lot harder to block, people don't care.

gnicholas 8y ago
Apparently photos can be taken with the Mac camera and trigger the green light so briefly that it is not noticeable [1]. It would be good if Apple set a minimum activation period for the green light, so that even if the camera is only on for a millisecond, the green light is on for 5 seconds or something. In the meantime, there are tools that can alert you to any activations [2]. 1: https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/your-macs-camera-can-be-hacked/ https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/your-macs-camera-ca... 2: https://www.macworld.com/article/3129449/security/how-to-keep-your-macs-camera-from-spying-on-you-no-tape-required.html https://www.macworld.com/article/3129449/security/how-to-kee...
- eb0la 8y ago
  Even better than an activation period: use a condenser to power the led, then make the photo. Hardware hackers here will gladly make a small circuit that prevents that brief flicker and cannot be circumvented because it is hardware.
implying 8y ago
I recall seeing a proof of concept that disabled the light by exploiting the camera controller's firmware. It seems that the light and the camera are not wired in series, but individually addressable by the controller.
jfrankamp 8y ago
I don't think this is true. Can you back this claim? I think they are not hardwired together, but merely both activated at the same time via firmware. Until hardware manufacturers provide a simple hardware sensor cutoff, blocking them via whatever means seems normal to me. There is no reason to trust tech companies.
- eddyg 8y ago
  It's one of the jobs of the T1/T2 chips in newer Macs. "as well as keeping tabs on the microphone and FaceTime HD camera to keep them safe from hacking"[1] [1]https://blog.macsales.com/43360-imac-pros-t2-chip-what-it-is-and-what-it-does https://blog.macsales.com/43360-imac-pros-t2-chip-what-it-is...
mikeleeorg 8y ago
Frighteningly, it's possible to hack into a computer and turn on the camera without triggering the green light: https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/117937/how-to-use-isight-webcam-without-activating-the-green-light https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/117937/how-to-use-... https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569 https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569 And some news articles about these methods: https://www.cultofmac.com/258855/alarming-study-shows-macs-camera-can-secretly-spy/ https://www.cultofmac.com/258855/alarming-study-shows-macs-c... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2013/12/18/research-shows-how-macbook-webcams-can-spy-on-their-users-without-warning/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2013/12/18...
- eddyg 8y ago
  This was only true on old Macs (those manufactured until roughly 2008). No recent models have been proven to be susceptible to this type of hacking.
gargravarr 8y ago
When I got my hands on an old Retina MBP, the screen was broken. I was able to source a screen from a second machine that didn't boot, but that machine was older. Many of the components were ever so slightly different (thanks Apple). The display cable fitted okay, but the webcam cable didn't fit. Just a few moments after I became annoyed at this, I realised - this is probably the best solution. I would have covered the camera up anyway. Okay, the adaptive brightness doesn't work either, but it's a minor inconvenience for quite a lot more security. My other laptop (a Clevo custom) has a keyboard shortcut that disables the camera as a USB device, making it drop off the hardware list; I'm sure there's a way around that, but it provides another hurdle to anyone attempting to invade my privacy.

gnicholas 8y ago

Apparently photos can be taken with the Mac camera and trigger the green light so briefly that it is not noticeable [1]. It would be good if Apple set a minimum activation period for the green light, so that even if the camera is only on for a millisecond, the green light is on for 5 seconds or something. In the meantime, there are tools that can alert you to any activations [2]. 1: https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/your-macs-camera-can-be-hacked/ https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/your-macs-camera-ca... 2: https://www.macworld.com/article/3129449/security/how-to-keep-your-macs-camera-from-spying-on-you-no-tape-required.html https://www.macworld.com/article/3129449/security/how-to-kee...

eb0la 8y ago
Even better than an activation period: use a condenser to power the led, then make the photo. Hardware hackers here will gladly make a small circuit that prevents that brief flicker and cannot be circumvented because it is hardware.

implying 8y ago

I recall seeing a proof of concept that disabled the light by exploiting the camera controller's firmware. It seems that the light and the camera are not wired in series, but individually addressable by the controller.

jfrankamp 8y ago

I don't think this is true. Can you back this claim? I think they are not hardwired together, but merely both activated at the same time via firmware. Until hardware manufacturers provide a simple hardware sensor cutoff, blocking them via whatever means seems normal to me. There is no reason to trust tech companies.

eddyg 8y ago
It's one of the jobs of the T1/T2 chips in newer Macs. "as well as keeping tabs on the microphone and FaceTime HD camera to keep them safe from hacking"[1] [1]https://blog.macsales.com/43360-imac-pros-t2-chip-what-it-is-and-what-it-does https://blog.macsales.com/43360-imac-pros-t2-chip-what-it-is...

mikeleeorg 8y ago

Frighteningly, it's possible to hack into a computer and turn on the camera without triggering the green light: https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/117937/how-to-use-isight-webcam-without-activating-the-green-light https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/117937/how-to-use-... https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569 https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569 And some news articles about these methods: https://www.cultofmac.com/258855/alarming-study-shows-macs-camera-can-secretly-spy/ https://www.cultofmac.com/258855/alarming-study-shows-macs-c... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2013/12/18/research-shows-how-macbook-webcams-can-spy-on-their-users-without-warning/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2013/12/18...

eddyg 8y ago
This was only true on old Macs (those manufactured until roughly 2008). No recent models have been proven to be susceptible to this type of hacking.

gargravarr 8y ago

When I got my hands on an old Retina MBP, the screen was broken. I was able to source a screen from a second machine that didn't boot, but that machine was older. Many of the components were ever so slightly different (thanks Apple). The display cable fitted okay, but the webcam cable didn't fit. Just a few moments after I became annoyed at this, I realised - this is probably the best solution. I would have covered the camera up anyway. Okay, the adaptive brightness doesn't work either, but it's a minor inconvenience for quite a lot more security. My other laptop (a Clevo custom) has a keyboard shortcut that disables the camera as a USB device, making it drop off the hardware list; I'm sure there's a way around that, but it provides another hurdle to anyone attempting to invade my privacy.